Right On: Hate and venom from the left

Stock image, St. George News

OPINION —Denizens of the political left, self-anointed guardians of compassion and justice, are spewing hatred and venom these days.

One might expect those on the far left and right extremes – the ideologues – to espouse “take no prisoners” rhetoric. But today, a disappointing number of those who were viewed previously as center-left are the most rabid.

The proximate cause these days is hatred of President Trump and anyone and anything associated with him. But root causes go far deeper, back into the 1960s.

The blatant racism of the Jim Crow South and the need to eradicate it became a national cause supported by both political parties. The left moved onto this moral high ground while all too many die-hard segregationists found a home on the right.

Striking a resonant chord with the American public, the left set about to “deliver America from shame to decency” in African-American author Shelby Steele’s words. He goes on to say, “If racism was necessarily at the top of the list, it was quickly followed by a litany of bigotries ending in ‘ism’ and ‘phobia.’”

Intoxicated by their new-found political power, the left created a variety of federal social programs to combat its ever-increasing list of social ills. We’ve spent $22 trillion on them in the last 50 years.

The power to do all this flowed from readily-perceived American societal failings: discrimination and economic injustices. But as government programs to combat them became institutionalized, the left needed what Steele calls “new menaces” to combat.

In searching for new menaces, the left descended from the moral high ground and has increasingly lost its legitimacy.

As an example of lost legitimacy, today’s anti-American Democratic presidential hopefuls continue to flog what they claim is the country’s inherent racism. Here’s what they have to say today about America’s criminal justice system:

New Jersey’s Sen. Cory Booker claims that “we are at a time where injustice has grown to be normal in our country.”

Massachusetts’ Sen. Elizabeth Warren states that “the hard truth about our criminal justice system: it’s racist. . . . I mean, all the way, front to back.”

California’s Sen. Kamala Harris says that “our criminal-justice system has failed.”

Democrats all, these politicians are grasping at straws to keep the “menace” of racism alive. Their claims fly in the face of today’s American experience.

Mention the word “Ferguson” and images of a white police officer shooting an “innocent” black man come to mind, at least to the liberal mind. They conveniently ignore the fact that a grand jury ruled that the black man was the aggressor and police officer fired in self-defense.

A police officer is 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer. Even that statistic ignores those violently resisting arrest as was the case in Ferguson.

Black males make up 42 percent of all cop killers while making up only 6 percent of the population.

White-on-black shootings revive the menace of America’s racist past and become badly-needed political fodder for the left. Yet over 90 percent of blacks who are murdered are killed by other blacks.

None of these facts fit the liberal narrative so they get little or no political or liberal media coverage.

Following Hillary Clinton’s election failure, otherwise-centrist Democrats have turned to the politics of hate and to disparaging the country.

Rep. Adam Schiff – previously “known as a milquetoast moderate” according to the liberal New Yorker magazine – has become a Democratic hero for keeping alive the Trump/Russia collusion myth while trying to stifle an investigation into Obama administration misdeeds.

Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand was an upstate New York representative who belonged to the centrist Blue Dog Coalition. A 2013 New Yorker article called her “Strong Vanilla.” She’s now distinguished by having the Senate’s most anti-Trump voting record.

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo was quoted recently as saying, “America was never that great.”

Rep. Maxine Waters is a self-appointed practitioner of hate, urging her followers to think of hatred as power itself.

That hate is displayed when conservative speakers are shouted down and assaulted on college campuses; when Republican officials are harassed in restaurants, in the street, in front of their homes.

Running out of menaces in American society, the left’s arguments are becoming obsolete. The failure of the left’s programs to create the Utopian society they’d envisioned in the heady days of the 1960s weighs heavily on them.

Donald Trump makes a convenient target but Shelby Steele argues that behind the smokescreen, the left’s raison d’être is slip sliding away. All that’s left is anti-American hate and venom.

Howard Sierer is an opinion columnist for St. George News. The opinions stated in this article are his own and may not be representative of St. George News.

Email: hsierer@stgeorgeutah.com

Twitter: @STGnews

Copyright St. George News, SaintGeorgeUtah.com LLC, 2019, all rights reserved.

Free News Delivery by Email

Would you like to have the day's news stories delivered right to your inbox every evening? Enter your email below to start!

127 Comments

  • LocalTourist January 10, 2019 at 3:59 pm

    Howard, you’ve lost your mind.
    Again.
    If you followed Trump… at all… during his campaign, then it’s pretty obvious where the vitriol came from.
    The guy is a reality TV host who had enough money to buy a presidency.
    Tell me how Great America is again… tell me about this economy, that lost everything in the past month…to a point we’re around the same point it was when Trump took office. His staff has been through a revolving door, including Bull Dog Mattis… one of the straightest-shooting people ever… you’d think it took a lot to lose someone that professional. But all it took was a political promise to our enemies to withdraw from the battlefield. We’re fighting ourselves, our fellow Americans, more than our enemies. A Trump supporter ran a car into protestors on a closed street during a demonstration and killed someone. TOOK. A. LIFE… of a fellow American. What have we become?
    The president sets the tone. And his tone was set well before the election. You blame the left, but that’s just convenient amnesia… you’re forgetting his label for “Lyin’ Ted Cruz”, and “crooked Hillary”, just like the p&%y-grabbing, the Pocahontas comments… I could go on, but you don’t care anyway.
    Let’s face it, revisionist history is alive and well and you dipped into that crockpot. I’m not saying the left is innocent, but they’re just trying to play catch-up… and they have stooped to Trump’s level of 10th-grade bullying.

    You reached a level our president calls “fake news”. I always hated that label. But it fits this column.

    • Craig January 10, 2019 at 5:12 pm

      So very sadly informed. Yes, he’s so stupid he works circles around the rest of us and earned more money than we can comprehend.

      • iceplant January 10, 2019 at 8:03 pm

        Yeah, because that’s the ONLY thing that matters, right? Making money? Please.
        If you measure a man by how much money he makes your priorities are so far out of whack you can’t be taken seriously.

  • bikeandfish January 10, 2019 at 4:11 pm

    I wish I was shocked by Howard’s invective but I’m not. He is raising the mantle Trump has created and now naming the left and Trump’s political opposition as “Un-American”. This is negative partisanship at its most honest and transparent. Its a bastardization of American politics. No longer can parties openly disagree on policy. Now only one party is considered legitimate and American.

    The overton window is rapidly shifting to the extreme right and its happening because pundits like Howard are more than willing to utilize this new American arsenal of authoritarian rhetoric.

    Americans who value the liberal tenets that founded and fortify our Republic need to fight this zealotry openly and passionately. This type of negative partisanship (we see it in Ed’s columns as well) is not helping our citizens or country. Its simply a destructive tool to tear us asunder. We shouldn’t do this in the name of party but in the name of the Constitutional liberalism that use to bind us.

    Neither party owns the definition of American. Neither party is more patriotic or more concerned about national security. Attacking political opponents in this fashion is inherently dangerous and needs to be quashed.

    PS…. pundits who cite themselves should be treated with the most serious of skepticism.

    • bikeandfish January 10, 2019 at 4:13 pm

      Correction… “Un-American” should be “anti-American”

    • bikeandfish January 10, 2019 at 4:22 pm

      Hit send to soon.

      I don’t see much difference between narrowly defining who is Un-American (common rhetoric by pro-Trumpers) and who is anti-American (Howard) but in light of earlier correction its fair to say the following quotes would have been more as “pro-America(n)”

      “Now only one party is considered legitimate and American.”

      “Neither party owns the definition of American”

      Howard’s rhetoric and attacks inherently try to deligitamize political opposition. Its a bad faith argument and one that is becoming all to common.

      • Just Guessin January 10, 2019 at 7:04 pm

        Gotta laugh at the PC correct people correcting themselves, EPIC.

      • Just Guessin January 10, 2019 at 7:24 pm

        American is not a Definition Bike, It is a being, a presents, proud ownership, respect and god fearing. It’s just something you feel. You can’t define it Websters Dictionary.

        Ya, I used the “G” word … not sorry either

        I see a lot of America being trashed by the UPSET people with no answers but violence , hate and Destruction.
        Real Americans only have so much patients

    • Craig January 10, 2019 at 5:14 pm

      I suggest you watch the Kavanaugh hearings, Antifa riots, protests and riots after Trump was elected, and the campus riots, riots in Kansas snd Maryland.

      No sir, the liberal left has become fascist as Reagan warned and wants to force others to do what they demand.

      • bikeandfish January 10, 2019 at 6:34 pm

        That’s not a counter to my criticism of Howard’s piece.

        You can criticize elements within the “liberal left” without resorting to attempts to broadly deligitamize the “denizens of the political left” as “anti-American”. (Interestingly, “denizen” has historical meaning of a “foreigner allowed certain rights in their adopted country”).

        Howard has abandoned that sort of critical approach and instead escalated political disagreements to a binary like “anti-American”.

        And another caveat, there is an important difference between employing fascist tactics and being fascists. Its similar to the difference between sharing ideas that are racist in origin and actually being racist.

      • Red2Blue310 January 11, 2019 at 1:44 pm

        Tidy white you do know Antifa stands for? Anti- fascist (Nazi)

        • Comment January 12, 2019 at 4:31 pm

          kinda ironic they use the same street brawl tactics that hitler supporters (brown shirts) used, huh?

          • Comment January 12, 2019 at 4:31 pm

            antifa are a bunch of mindless, violent, bully thugs

  • tcrider January 10, 2019 at 4:13 pm

    The way Howeird sees it, is that anyone that does not think like him, are
    full of hate and venom and are not, I repeat are not fear mongering idiots
    that spread lies and propaganda like Howeird.

  • Red2Blue310 January 10, 2019 at 4:25 pm

    Feeling pretty safe in your entitled white bigoted bubble, huh? This opinion piece is so racist and full of republican nonsense. You say, “We’ve spent $22 trillion on them in the last 50 years” meaning blacks, minorities and what you clearly see as leftist ideologies. First, when W took over as president the US deficit was at it lowest after Clinton. Bush crashed that by adding $10 trillion to the deficit and plunging us into the worst recession since the 1920’s depression. Obama added $10 Trillion digging us out of Bush’s recession and trying to provide universal health care. Trump and his republican “conservatives” have added another $2 trillion in the 2 years hes been in office, meanwhile claiming to be “fiscal” conservatives. Trump spends $ millions on his frivolous golf and vacation spots, has given the top 1% of the country tax cuts they pretty much kept to themselves and now is using innocent government workers as blackmail to get a steel wall built they have nothing to do with and he’s telling people the wall will stop the flow of drugs here. What a bunch of blow.

    • Craig January 10, 2019 at 5:23 pm

      Entitled, white bigoted bubble, racist and on snd on. It’s interesting the left’s primary tactic when they cannot debate is to trash the character of the opponent. Childish.

      Let’s see. Bush increased the debt to $10 trillion and is horrible, but Obama by himself doubled it, and that wonderful showing how hard he tried.

      My interest in those who are blind party followers is nearing zero.

      I didn’t like Trump; I wanted Carson; but when I saw how hard Trump works, what he has done that prior Presidents have cowered snd not done, I have no interest in lying blind party loyalists.

      He tolerates and ignores your crap and continues. 11 Presidents failed with Korea; Trump went head to head, he’s pulling us out of Syria, the list is becoming endless.

      He’s is first American President we’ve had in decades. If he was a Democrat, we’d hear and see your Boeing snd groveling every night on TV everyday.

      The belie childish lying and behavior at the Zkavanaugh hearing, defended by people like you, relegate your opinions to the bottom of the list.

      • bikeandfish January 10, 2019 at 6:44 pm

        Your comment about character assaults are interesting given Trump’s tendency to go nuclear in that realm and the very content of Howard’s piece. Its one giant character assault.

        All our presidents have been American. That is some seriously jingoism and sychophantic rhetoric.

        Can you show us how the situation with Korea is empirically different for the better?

        Did you read Bolton’s statement on Syria? We aren’t withdrawing.

        The “how hard he works” claim is laughable. You do realize how many vacation days he’s taken, correct?

        • ladybugavenger January 11, 2019 at 5:57 pm

          Are you on your pedestal b&f. Come down from there! You know you’ve called me a few names. Oh yes! I forgot, you always think your right, so it’s ok. (Your not too different from Trump lol)

          • ladybugavenger January 11, 2019 at 5:58 pm

            You have even offered your pity to me. Oh! I decline to take it. You can keep it for yourself

          • bikeandfish January 11, 2019 at 7:18 pm

            You missed the point.

            Remind me, what names have I called you? Can’t remember doing that too often that I have definitely called your behavior on this forum into question.

          • bikeandfish January 11, 2019 at 7:33 pm

            My editing is horrid recently.

            *though I have definitely called …

          • ladybugavenger January 11, 2019 at 7:57 pm

            You are not worth my time to dig up your comments.

      • Red2Blue310 January 10, 2019 at 8:09 pm

        Racist!

        • bikeandfish January 10, 2019 at 8:42 pm

          Huh? Could you clarify how Craig is racist or his comments are racist?

        • Just Guessin January 10, 2019 at 10:29 pm

          Love IT Red

  • Henry January 10, 2019 at 4:49 pm

    Howard: Not sure you understand that a person isn’t “Anti-American” just because their views are different than yours. You call the “Denizens of the Political Left, self-anointed guardians of compassion and justice.” I would hope that would apply to all of our elected officials – but it doesn’t. The most “anti-American hate and venom” these days spews from the mouth and fingertips of your favorite President. Nearly every one of your Op Eds is an attack on those people you appear to loathe – those pesky left-leaning Democrats (We are everywhere, you know – and we look like normal people, so you can’t tell us from y’all). I find it so telling, the words that this website uses to describe your article (Tags): hate, left wing, opinion, racism. Yup, so far, seems “Right On.”

    • Craig January 10, 2019 at 5:35 pm

      I think no member of Congress is ethical. All legally extort money from rich companies. After all, they write the laws. The only hope for our survival is a single fixed term for life for both the Congress and Supreme Court.

      We have enough capable citizens we can fill 544 slots every 6-8 years.

      As for the new liberal left, I do not agree with you. They come who eith a cause then with arrogant condescension believe they are so morally superior and intellectually superior that they are certain it’s okay to force the rest of us.

      Guns – the liberals want more gun laws. They don’t like guns so guns are wrong and we need to get rid of them.

      Climate – our people decided this disaster will happen so you mustcsgree it we will call you every name in the book and force you.

      Though neither party has much respect for the Constitution, we damn well should respect it.

      The government/president are to protect our borders. There is an excellent article discussing if that is an outdated idea. It is not snd the data shows it. But, the liberal leaders who supported Obama and have video in the absolute need for a wall are not against it. The only change is Trump.

      The list goes on and on. Sanctimonious condescending lecturing from people outright lying.

      I don’t particularly like Trump and I hate his tweets, but he’s the first damn person willing to actually do the job and you should look at the list of what he has done that decades of those before him were too cowardly to do.

      Blind obedience is wrong.

    • Craig January 10, 2019 at 5:43 pm

      Here is the article questioning if the wall is outdated.

      Most interesting is the reduction of risk to the Border Agents.

      It’s not perfect but is goes a very long way to solving our problem and will also dissuade manyftom even trying.

      If we couple that with strep daily fines to business using illegal aliens and eliminating the unconstitutional law of Congress that if an illegal mother can sneak over the border and have a baby, the baby is a citizen.

      Also, we are working with Mexico to keep those claiming refugee status in Mexico so they can find the 95% or do that do not qualify, sending the remainder to one of seven US locations In Mexico to evaluate, another huge draw is gone.

      Done correctly we can prevent a huge part of illegal aliens from attempting to enter while creating an atmosphere such that those here will self deport.

      One person quipped that the only thing not illegal in California is illegal aliens.

      The cause needs to end. There are rules.

      Here is the article –

      https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.justfactsdaily.com%2Fis-president-trumps-border-wall-an-outdated-ineffective-strategy%2F&h=AT2RlUzdvebOOPRIGT56I7iB1-xvm3aByWfFpqUxF7Qj73yEwQAev-GK4Dp6H-x_FcNnbcIRhuIwz_i42LwKcX74I2KgwMBiJbvwik9eOKhwL1tb4rXM8ozk6YF62EQ&s=1

      • Red2Blue310 January 11, 2019 at 1:47 pm

        Who cares about his unethical wall. He’s evil to use his own federal workers as blackmail to get it.

        • Comment January 12, 2019 at 4:32 pm

          the wall is coming. keep pouting about it

  • Craig January 10, 2019 at 5:24 pm

    Thank you for telling the truth, knowing full that most of what you describe would be thrown at you from the left.

    As Reagan warned, fascism will come from the left.

    • Red2Blue310 January 11, 2019 at 1:47 pm

      Doubt that Trump living racist.

  • iceplant January 10, 2019 at 5:30 pm

    This is an insane opinion and reflects incredibly poorly on SGNews and the staff who read and approved this hit piece.
    You people want to know why we all can’t get along? Look no further than the tripe dished up by Howard. Absolute garbage.

    • Just Guessin January 10, 2019 at 6:38 pm

      What happened to the First amendment ice. You gonna go after SGN because you don’t like it?…. REALLY?
      Typical Leftist opinion RIGHT there, just what the author was writing about.

      RACIST, RACIST , BIGOT, NOT FAIR , grow up will you please

      I read the other sides POV the other day and saw in the comments you were salivating and probably getting chills of ever paragraph he wrote, remember ice he was an OLD white male, probably privileged, with long WHITE hair and glasses.

      tags or trigger words from the left comments in this post that caught my eye,

      authoritarian
      racist
      white bigoted bubble

      Classy stuff folks…

      • iceplant January 10, 2019 at 7:58 pm

        Once again you fail to provide one word of substance. More trolling and defending your fascist views.
        It’s really interesting to watch you loons on the right play the victims now. This isn’t going to end well for any of you, I can assure you of that right here, right now. Keep talkin’ cause that’s all you got. TALK.

        • KR567 January 10, 2019 at 10:59 pm

          Once again you failed to provide one word of substance

  • Comment January 10, 2019 at 6:09 pm

    Well, there might be something to the russia collusion, so I wouldn’t totally discount that. But it’s hard to dispute most of the rest of the piece here. Hard-leftists and muti-cult fanatics within the dem party are absolutely insane and delusional, and it’s hard not to notice(if you actually look for it) that the leaders of multi-cult and extreme leftist agendas almost always tend to be a certain people–I call them “zionists”. Black criminality is also hard to ignore. And there is a lot more to it than socioeconomics, although it’s totally taboo and the left would say “racist” to discuss it. So what we have to do is deny reality for the sake of political correctness. I have no good answers of what to do about black poverty and criminality. No one has been able to solve it. Getting rid of the glamorized thug and drug culture perpetuated by owners of record labels and TV and hollywood(again, zionists) would be a start. If these thug rapper/hiphop scumbags and overpaid athletes weren’t the role models of young black men it would certainly be a better world.

    • Just Guessin January 10, 2019 at 6:57 pm

      “Black criminality is also hard to ignore. And there is a lot more to it than socioeconomics, although it’s totally taboo and the left would say “racist” to discuss it. So what we have to do is deny reality for the sake of political correctness. I have no good answers of what to do about black poverty and criminality. No one has been able to solve it. Getting rid of the glamorized thug and drug culture perpetuated by owners of record labels and TV and hollywood(again, zionists) would be a start. If these thug rapper/hiphop scumbags and overpaid athletes weren’t the role models of young black men it would certainly be a better world.”

      I got an answer for you comment, get rid of the welfare state, problem solved….
      Worth a watch if you have 10 minutes, some people might want to watch it twice so it sinks in

      Not Yours To Give
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Atlog_3QLA

      • Just Guessin January 10, 2019 at 9:56 pm

        No comment yet from our lefty leaders bike and ice… what up with that, maybe the watching it twice.

      • Comment January 11, 2019 at 12:12 am

        “get rid of the welfare state”

        Does this include the welfare for banks and corporations, big pharma, and military contractors, and tax cuts for billionaires, etc etc etc, or is this just the welfare for black single mothers and assorted food stamp recipients?

        sound like you been reading too much breitbart…

  • Kilroywashere January 10, 2019 at 6:36 pm

    SEE 95% of the COMMENTS ABOVE. Writer of the article has a point. Only 1 commentor makes a quality analysis that is relevent.. Is this article not describing the behavior of politicians? HELLO? Maybe Kevin Spacey’s character from House of Cards is not too far from the truth. Facts are irrelevant. Statistics are irrelevant. It is all optics and emotional manipulation to sway public sentiment usually on behalf of lobbyists, corporations, and major donors. AKA: United States of Kibuki Theater .

  • bikeandfish January 10, 2019 at 6:57 pm

    I would also like to highlight Howard is citing an attack on an American congresswoman by the Russian funded RT.

    “Rep. Maxine Waters is a self-appointed practitioner of hate, urging her followers to think of hatred as power itself.’

    Inside that quote is the following RT hyperlink:

    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/433714-maxine-waters-hustler-hate/

    The irony of calling the American left “anti-American” while citing Russian propoganda isn’t missed and should be highlighted.

    • Comment January 10, 2019 at 7:15 pm

      Maxine Waters is a half-senile old imbecile. I don’t believe her handlers dare let her off a short leash too often.

      • bikeandfish January 10, 2019 at 7:30 pm

        Not the point. Howard is citing Russian propoganda while claiming liberals are “anti-American”.

        • Comment January 10, 2019 at 7:56 pm

          I’m glad we agree about Maxine, lol. Howard is a chronic BS’er with no credibility, so I suppose he can cite RT’s bs to go along with his bs all day long, lol. Howard may have been a satellite space astronaut or satellite space cadet or some kind of hotshot back in the day, but when it comes to politics he’s not what I’d call a ‘deep thinker’. He should stick to writing about space cadet stuff, where he might actually be some kind of “expert”. lol 😉

          • bikeandfish January 10, 2019 at 8:36 pm

            I neither agree with or disagree with specific assessments of Maxine Waters. I am fairly ambivalent. She is a representative for her California constituents and its up to them to assess her success at representing their needs.

            I fear Howard is a symptom of a larger shift in the conservative base to abandon classic values. One of the things we have learned from the Russian investigation is that Russia and its many operatives intentionally worked to divide American citizens via hyperpartisan news, especially fake news (the real type, ie complete fabrications). Sourcing an RT article that attacks an American Congresswoman seems a prime example of the success of that strategy. Even worse, Howard’s citation doesn’t even support his claim that she is a “self-appointed practitioner of hate;” the claims in the article are based on outside criticism, not self-assessment (he should know hyperlink citations should actually support his allegations).

            What is happening in our political parties is worrisome. I suggest more people read up on “negative partisanship” and how its been defining pundits like Howard (and clearly Ed as well) for a while now.

            And as important, when did conservatives like Howard become so cozy with Russia given their clear attacks on liberal constitutional values? We have been watching this shift for more than two years now and its problematic.

    • Just Guessin January 10, 2019 at 7:36 pm

      RUSSIA, RUSSIA!!!! RT!!! if only they would scrutinize CNN like that
      What has RUSSIA done to you lately bike or the US.

      Can’t believe you would defend Waters… Really?
      Do a little research on that thing you call a congress person and get back to us

      • iceplant January 10, 2019 at 7:59 pm

        Again, not one word of substance. Pathetic.

        • Just Guessin January 10, 2019 at 10:17 pm

          Exactly, thanks for pointing that out . Just what I was talking about. I’m glad we can come together on that point ice.
          Who knows you may you still have hope.

      • Comment January 10, 2019 at 8:00 pm

        CNN is something else. What’s the creepy, prematurely white haired, gay ex-CIA agent’s name again? Oh I got it: Anderson Cooper. CNN needs some scrutinizing and sanitizing. And Anderson Cooper and all the other clowns of MSM, including both ‘the left’ and ‘the right’ sets of the clown circus all need to be sanitized and euthanized. lol

        • Comment January 10, 2019 at 8:20 pm

          pffffffffffffff, I just googled Anderson Cooper. It gets even weirder when you realize who his parents are. OMG. Never would’ve guessed. Creepy creepy.

          • bikeandfish January 10, 2019 at 8:40 pm

            Anderson Cooper definitely comes from an elite family.

            One caveat, calling Cooper a CIA Agent is a bit of an exaggeration. He interned for them for a few summers. Not quite the same. I do think being skeptical of the cozy relationship between government and journalist can be important but its not a clear verdict on their body of work. Especially given how harsh they can be on those very institutions and figures. There are some fair indictments from what I can see though, especially in regards to war coverage.

          • Comment January 10, 2019 at 11:56 pm

            Cooper is a fricken Vanderbilt! All these years I’ve seen him clowning around on cnn and I had no idea. It really is just bizarre. Just him alone is like the book 1984 come to realization. He’s so robotic and nothing but a mouthpiece for agenda politics. It’s been years since I saw him on TV, but that’s ALL he did back then. Agendas agendas agendas…

          • Red2Blue310 January 11, 2019 at 1:50 pm

            There you go again with your bigoted remarks.

          • Comment January 12, 2019 at 4:33 pm

            so are ‘racist’ and ‘bigot’ interchangeable generic insults in your book or what?

  • bikeandfish January 10, 2019 at 8:55 pm

    The “anti-American” claim is all the more concerning and ironic given Trump said the following today:

    “I find China frankly in many ways to be far more honorable than Cryin’ Chuck and Nancy. I really do,” Trump said.”

    Republican pundits are citing Russian propaganda and the president is claiming China is deserving of “respect” or alternatively adhere ” to what is right or to a conventional standard of conduct” than actual Americans. Remember this folks. Howard and the President are using foreign entities to attack American politicians all the while claiming liberals are “anti-American”, inferring they are “criminals” or even “enemy of the people.” This is the new normal, if we accept it.

  • NorthwesternWildcats January 10, 2019 at 9:02 pm

    They keep giving this clown opinion pieces because the arguing gives them clicks. I skimmed a couple sentences before you see the same ol song and dance from the brainwashed right. tRump lies dozens of times a day , cheats on all his wives and pays off porn stars but the religious right still tolerate him because they care more about party over country even though most of them never served a combat mission. Speaking of which , hows the tRump shutdown going ? And yes, it’s th tRump shutdown because he said , on camera that he would own it. 1/3 affected are veterans so how does he care about them ? Enough of tRump. What about Mitch McConnell? He’s worse than tRump for the American people because he takes his orders from tRump instead of doing what’s best for the constituents. Reap what you sow because the blue wave hit the midterms and in 2020 the wave turns into a tsunami. I was a political independent but from all the fraud waste and abuse by the Russian in chief , it turned me bluer than a smurf and will never ever vote for any republican as long as I live. Doesn’t mean much in this brain washed state but I’m glad I have morals to not vote time and again for the people that harm the country the most.

  • Redbud January 10, 2019 at 11:04 pm

    Michael Moore predicted that Trump would win the presidency, and as I look back on his exact words, it’s as if he could see into the future (edited out the bad words) :

    “They might be penniless. They might be homeless. They might be f—–d over and f—-d up. It doesn’t matter. Because it’s equalized on that day. A millionaire has the same number of votes as a person without a job. One. And there’s more of the former middle class than there of the millionaire class. So, on November 8, the dispossessed will walk into the voting booth, be handed a ballot, close the curtain, and take that lever, or felt pen, or touchscreen, and put a big, f——g “X” by the name of the man who has threatened to upend and overturn the very system that has ruined their lives. Donald J. Trump.

    They see that the elites who ruined their lives hate Trump. Corporate America hates Trump. Wall Street hates Trump. The career politicians hate Trump. The media hates Trump… after they loved him, and created him. And now hate him. Thank you, media…

    ‘The enemy of my enemy is who I’m voting for on November 8.’

    Yes, on November 8, you, Joe Blow, Steve Blow, Bob Blow, Billy Bob Blow, all the Blows, get to go and blow up the whole god-d—-d system, because it’s your right. Trump’s election is going to be the biggest ‘F U’ ever recorded in human history – and it will feel good.”

    • bikeandfish January 10, 2019 at 11:57 pm

      His Molotov Cocktail metaphor was spot on. Even Michael Moore gets things right occasionally. But you cherry picked his quote. Here is what follows:

      “Voting for Trump will feel good for a day,” Moore says, “Maybe a week. Possibly a month. And then. Like the Brits, who wanted to send a message, so they voted to leave Europe only to find out that, if you vote to leave Europe, you actually have to leave Europe. And now they regret it.”

      He predicts a regret and wish for a do-over but says “It’s not going to happen. Because you used the ballot as an anger management tool. And now you’re f#$+ed.”

      End quote.

      Remember your own words, “it’s as if he could see into the future.”

      • Redbud January 11, 2019 at 1:43 am

        Bikeandfish, I picked only part of his speech because the whole thing is too long. If you go on YouTube and watch the whole thing, there is actually a lot more things he shared. I am well aware that Michael Moore was not a Trump fan, but he was smart enough to know what was going to happen. I am fine with you posting more of it, because it only supports what I have been saying all along. It is true that voting for Trump only felt good for a day, week, or month as he said, but only to certain people. You see, when Trump was elected President and took office, people were shocked when Trump did what he said he was going to do, and now that he’s done so much good for this country, the liberals just can’t stand it. So for them (if they voted for Trump), they regret voting for him since he’s such a wonderful leader. The rest of them voted for Hillary and being the poor sports they are, just can’t stop crying about it (an even bigger tantrum that has lasted longer than Trump’s shutdown!) The rest of us Americans don’t regret voting for Trump, even now. We will continue to support Trump, and sit back enjoy the show and successes beyond 2020 with Trump as our fearless leader, as the biggest “F U” in history unfolds, and oh yes Michael Moore, it does indeed feel good!!!

        • bikeandfish January 11, 2019 at 8:16 am

          Same old sychophantic nonsense yet no awareness of what you have said and posted contradicts your conclusions.

          • Redbud January 11, 2019 at 2:49 pm

            Well bike, the truth hurts doesn’t it? Otherwise you wouldn’t have bothered responding. You got Trumped!

          • bikeandfish January 11, 2019 at 3:44 pm

            What does that even mean? You persistently make absolutely no sense.

    • Comment January 11, 2019 at 12:08 am

      Hmm, that’s fascinating. I didn’t know he had said that.

      So the question for you right-wingers: after all that’s gone down why are you people still so enamored with billionaire elitists & special tax cuts for them, Corporate America, and Wall Street? You people have all this reverence for wallstreet and the stock markets that I just don’t understand. Any right-wingers care to explain? You people have learned that Reaganomics trickle-down voodoo BS has never worked, yes?

  • Frank January 11, 2019 at 12:35 am

    Bravo 👍

  • commonsense January 11, 2019 at 7:57 am

    America was almost over racism, so much so, that it eleceted a Black president who chose early and often to play the race card, making Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown and Freddie Gray national heroes while targeting police. Yes, Obama will forever be the great divider, the re-creator of racism and hatred in America.

    • Henry January 11, 2019 at 10:22 am

      Regardless of the comments here, one thing is clear – the writer of the article continues to spew his vitriol of all who he considers to be a Leftist Liberal. I’m so glad he’s had a blessed life and has never had to live like those pesky welfare people he seems to hate. Shame on you, St. George News, for giving him a forum.

      • Redbud January 11, 2019 at 2:46 pm

        There’s nothing wrong with welfare, and I’m glad it’s available for those who truly need it during difficult times, but it is abused and that’s not something up for debate. Liberals could care less if people abuse welfare, as long as it’s available. Their attitude earns them more votes, especially by those who abuse the system. This was a long time ago, but my first job was at a fast food place. People on welfare had to prove they were applying for 3 jobs a week (this was in another state), so they’d pull up in their nice Cadillac, walk inside, and shove an application in my managers face and demand she sign it with no intention of actually wanting to work there. All they wanted was a signature. My manager knew exactly what they were trying to do, and told them to get the hell out. Trump 2020!

        • Henry January 11, 2019 at 11:03 pm

          I’ve dealt extensively with welfare recipients (Medicaid) in my work. Although there are many who abuse the system, overall it is a safety net for those who need it most. Much of the fraud has been curbed by the use of computers (before computers, my staff found multiple instances of people who lived on the state border collecting benefits from both states). We do need to continue to work toward ensuring welfare recipients aren’t fraudulently drawing benefits, but the example that you use is valid. Many states require that recipients complete 10-40 job searches per month, and much of the time the person has no intention or chance of getting the job. However, in many towns there are finite job opportunities, yet the requirement still stands. It certainly isn’t true that “liberals could care less” about welfare abuse;” we do. I guess I should point out that I care about the farm subsidies and tax cuts (welfare) going to huge corporations – including those out of country ones – just as much as I care about the little guy scamming food stamp monies. We are one country, not you versus me. Unless you choose to live that way, which is just plain sad.

          • Comment January 12, 2019 at 4:36 pm

            we need stop more illegals from invading and work toward an eventual goal of getting rid of all the illegals.

  • RationalGuy January 11, 2019 at 3:17 pm

    Right on Howard! Forget about all of these hateful and ignorant leftists. Keep sharing the truth. Eventually it will set us all free.

  • bikeandfish January 11, 2019 at 3:43 pm

    First, the fraud rate for most “welfare” programs is relatively low. For SNAP its less than 1% of all dollars:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/simonconstable/2018/04/04/the-facts-about-food-stamp-fraud/#446aa89cf880

    Its higher for other programs but my last reading was it hovers between 5-7% of the total welfare dollars. Too high yet not the issue painted by many opponents to such programs. To put it another way, they criticize a program in which 93-95% of the participants engage it legally and ethically.

    You also create a strawman about liberals and acceptance of welfare fraud. You provide zero evidence to back up your claim. The trope about welfare and voting is lazy at best.

    • bikeandfish January 11, 2019 at 3:56 pm

      Oops, browser must have refreshed. This was a reply to Redbud’s welfare comment above.

    • Redbud January 11, 2019 at 4:41 pm

      Like you said, it’s too high. Building the wall will quickly pay for itself in countless ways. It’s not just welfare but all the other things we are paying for as a result of illegal immigration. Nancy is against protecting our country, and an enemy of the people. Build that wall!

      • bikeandfish January 11, 2019 at 5:54 pm

        There is jo greater evidence to the damage Trump’s extremist sloganeering is having than your comments here. And this is the ravenous appetite of negative partisanship pundits like Howard are feeding. At some point conservatives are going to look back and see how much damage they have done to their own policies and ideals by engaging in this “anti-American” and “enemy of the people” rhetoric. And our country will be worse off without a functional platform for conservative ideals.

        • Redbud January 11, 2019 at 6:59 pm

          I don’t consider myself a Trump extremist, anymore than the Obama and Hillary worshipers. If supporting our wonderful President makes me an extremist, then I’ll take that as a compliment. I don’t idolize or worship Trump, I’m just smart enough to recognize his great leadership and accomplishments. True Americans recognize the same thing, and try as you might, you won’t bring us down or stop us. Trump 2020!

          • bikeandfish January 11, 2019 at 7:56 pm

            Extremist is calling political opposition “enemy of the people”.

            And you openly worship Trump here. Its amazing you have deceived yourself into thinking otherwise. I mean have used the same language citizens of North Korea are forced to use with their leader. And you do it with no sense of irony.

            Worship: (verb) adoration or devotion comparable to religious homage, shown toward a person or principle.

            And then you double down on fascist definitions like “True Americans”.

            Last week you fabricated some type of post-apocalyptic call to arms for your fellow nationalists and now you take it one step further with “you… won’t stop us”. That falls in line with Trump’s belief that he has “absolute” power or right to do as he pleases, wether its control of the judiciary, using FEMA monies to penalize political opposition, or use emergency powers to build a wall by the military.

            That is extremism. And its made all the more obvious that you recognize you are behaving like the Obama worshippers that helped him push presidentalism into such dangerous terrain. Its ironic given he was one of the alleged justifications for using the ballot box as “an anger management tool” to say FU to the system you claim to despise but are now clearly the worst of.

            This is why people need to call out Howard’s use of such dangerous language like “anti-American”.

        • Redbud January 11, 2019 at 9:32 pm

          Bike, it is evident that you have spent so much of your life making things up in your head, that you believe your own lies. I am not against Pelosi simply because she is political opposition. I am against her because she is against the wall, and if she is against the wall, she is against protecting our country and freedom. I define an anti-American as anyone who fights against the very laws that keep us free! Liberals, even though they are the “political opposition”, tend to do this more often. Not all of them, so I am not against those kind. So yes, if you threaten to take away my life, my property, my job, my freedom, my guns, my rights, you betcha I’m going to put up a fight, as would any True American who would fight along beside me. That fight can be as simple as putting big fat X next to the person on the ballot who will protect our freedoms and security. Last election that person was Trump, and come 2020, that person will again be Trump, and it will feel good! Only snowflakes like yourself get your panties in a bunch over the phrase “anti-American.” If there weren’t so many anti-Americans, it wouldn’t even need to be said in the first place! Not only that, but if you are anti-American, I will call you out on it and say it straight to your face. The truth makes you and people like you cringe, shrivel, and whither away and that gives the rest of us with common sense great pleasure. Ignorance is bliss while you continue to make a fool of yourself. As for the border wall, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Every cent spent on the border wall, whether it comes out of my pocket, your pocket, FEMA’s pocket, whatever, will be worth it! (Also I think you meant whether, not wether.)

          • bikeandfish January 11, 2019 at 11:48 pm

            First, yep, my editing hasn’t been great recently. No shame in admitting those errors.

            More important and to the point, you are now backtracking and trying to add a measly amount of nuance to your “enemy of the people” and “anti-American” rhetoric? Too rich. You initially threw out those accusations with zero justification. And your new rational is still 100% about deligitamizing political opposition.

            Your statement that “if she [Pelosi] is against the wall, she is against protecting our country and freedom. I define an anti-American as anyone who fights against the very laws that keep us free” 100% supports my conclusions. At some point, Congress actually taking a stand against a president’s budget requests (not a law as you misstate) becomes an attack on your “freedom” and a clear abdication at her duty of “protecting our county” according to your inverted logic. The irony of that exposes how unsound your basic grasp of American civics truly is. We aren’t at war. There is no invasion. Our country is not at any significant risk and therefore doesn’t need some alarmist demand for protection. You have no facts to support the claims inherent to your argument. In fact, the facts expose the opposite,ie that the southern border is historically more secure than ever and enough so to decrease the rate of illegal immigration while overstay visas now make up the bulk of new illegal immigrants. And more to the point, our country is pluralistic with a rich history in fighting over this type of issue. Our Congress doesn’t owe loyalty to a president’s partisan demands. Plain and simple.

            Your entire argument is based on the foundations of years of fallacious fear-mongering by certain elements in the extreme right. And you are doing the dirty work for them by leveling baseless attacks like “enemy of the people” against fellow Americans.

            I should have guessed you’d throw out the antiquated name “snowflake”. Free entertainment for me. About as effective as yelling TDS, crayons and momma’s basement. It exposes how bankrupt your claims are. No one is melting here. Neither am I cringing. In fact you should notice my tone and content are doing quite the opposite.

            I think this “whatever” means necessary to justify the ends is yet another red flag on how far pundits on the right are pushing us away from liberal restraints on the federal government. I called the same habits out to my friends in regard to Obama and sadly it took watching Trump doing the same thing for the lesson to sink in (which they’ll probably abandon next time a D inevitably is POTUS). In a Democratic Republic founded on deep rooted Constitutional Liberality the means matter as much as the ends. In some cases it matters more, especially in regards to checks and balances. And history won’t forget that right now its Conservatives blasting through those intentionally fortified walls of our democracy to win short term partisan victories. Damage from those choices will not be short lived.

            Keep trying to exclude those you disagree with from the status of “true American”. You’ll find this alleged “snowflake” won’t do the same to you. In fact, I’m fully aware of other Americans and eras in which your narrow ultra-nationalism was common. On the other hand, I’ll actually compare our Constitutional foundations and histories to your comments and expose how wide that gap is. Every nation state resides on a range of spectrums and the language and claims like you espouse are pushing us further into the realms “illiberal democracy”, “fascism” and “authoritarianism” than we’ve seen in decades. Those aren’t healthy places for civil liberty.

          • Comment January 12, 2019 at 4:42 pm

            Bottom line: the illegals have to go.

  • ladybugavenger January 11, 2019 at 5:54 pm

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-gavin-newsom-healthcare-proposal-20190107-story.html%3foutputType=amp

    Maybe the illegals will go to California for their Medi-Cal until they are 26.

    • Comment January 11, 2019 at 6:35 pm

      Leftist insanity.

    • Redbud January 11, 2019 at 9:46 pm

      Ladybug, I agree with you, and I think bikeandfish would agree that’s a good compromise. He stated previously that California is so flush with cash, that it could become its own nation, so lets put that to the test! They can start a shuttle service and invite all the illegals to California since they can single-handedly absorb the cost of housing, feeding, and providing their health care, then build the wall around California to keep them in.

      • bikeandfish January 11, 2019 at 11:11 pm

        Now you are outright lying. I’ve never said anything about California becoming its own nation. What an odd and intellectually dishonest statement on your part. One has question your intention behind doing so.

        I love how folks like you feel a need to put words and ideas in my mouth. You aren’t even trying to hide your bad faith tactics and strawmen.

        And its too funny given I started a reply to comment but chose to delete it. But I’ll give you a chance to actually dissect my real analysis:

        A) Its not really all that crazy given current California law already requires coverage for these individuals to the age of 17.

        B) The states were supposed to be the level of governance at which this type of experimentation happened,ie not at the federal level (which I think is a flaw in AOC “Green New Deal” and programs like Medicare for All). But experiments inherently have uncertain outcomes and the likely of his plan succeeding is tenuous at best.

        3) I find it presumptive for California to take on this initiative before the federal case regarding the Constitutionality of healthcare mandates is resolved. I believe its still very much in limbo due to the Texas court ruling. It could be a massive waste of resources to even debate a measure that could quickly be ruled inherently unconstitutional.

        That is all I can really say at this point. Without more details its hard to way the merits of such a speculative goal.

        But once again several folks have provided evidence to substantiate my criticisms of negative partisanship.

        And nothing says patriotism and “pro-American” like (even jokingly) recommending we wall off one of the states in our union. Or does simply naming one a state’s Congresswoman as “enemy of the people” now eradicate their membership in our “united states of America”? I’m losing track.

        • Redbud January 12, 2019 at 12:13 am

          You’re an expert at putting words in people’s mouths so don’t dish it out, if you can’t take the heat. How hypocritical of you. You also falsely assume the meaning behind people’s statements by twisting it around to fit your anti-american points of view. We can see right through it, so you’ve lost at your own game.

          • bikeandfish January 12, 2019 at 1:10 am

            Cite me where I’ve put words in your mouth to back up our allegation.

          • Happy Commenter January 12, 2019 at 10:26 am

            B&F can’t take the heat, that’s the whole point. A head so big it can’t tell it’s been Trumped!

      • Henry January 11, 2019 at 11:13 pm

        Medi-Cal is a healthcare program. Illegal aliens don’t qualify for most housing programs, many welfare programs, etc. They come here and often work the jobs that no one else wants – for horrible wages. If they use an illegal Social Security number to work, they’re paying into someone else’s social security retirement. We aren’t “housing, feeding and providing their healthcare” for free. I guess what impresses me most about the comments from Redbud and his/her cronies is that they are made anonymously with venom. It’s easy to hide behind a keyboard.

        • Redbud January 12, 2019 at 12:20 am

          Henry, you’re totally ignoring the overall picture. Illegal immigration costs us more than you think. Add up all the dollars spent! According to the Kaiser Family Foundation:

          “Federal law generally bars illegal immigrants from being covered by Medicaid. But a little-known part of the state-federal health insurance program for the poor has long paid about $2 billion a year for emergency treatment for a group of patients who, according to hospitals, mostly comprise illegal immigrants.”

          Facts are facts.

  • Comment January 11, 2019 at 6:34 pm

    i’m beginning to believe the wall is a good idea. ANYTHING IS BETTER THAN NOTHING. AND WE ARE BEING INVADED. THE ILLEGALS NEED TO GO!

    • ladybugavenger January 11, 2019 at 8:48 pm

      I found if to be quite insane also, Bob. It’s an invitation to California. Maybe if all illegals go to California we can saw California off the US and let it float into the ocean lol

      • Comment January 11, 2019 at 10:58 pm

        maybe they can find a way to sink it after they saw it off. I’m just so so tired of illegals. They are ruining this country, and have been for many years now. Enough is enough.

    • Henry January 11, 2019 at 11:27 pm

      If only the statistics supported your (and your president’s) desire for a wall. But let’s just look at his promises: He started out by saying that we need a wall and that he would make Mexico pay for the wall. He said he would have them write a check for billions. Then he said he would stop the flow of monies from people in America sending $ back to relatives in Mexico. Now he’s backtracking it, wanting us to pony up 5+ billion dollars this year, then he increased it to about 10 billion total. Homeland Security says it will cost us, the American taxpayer, about $22 billion for it altho estimates are as much as 70 billion (including court challenges to eminent domain, etc). This, to build a wall in an area to keep people out, even though it’s been proven that the most illegal aliens we have came her with a visa and over-stayed it. If the estimated 30% of Americans who still believe in Trump were to each send in $1,000 each and build the fence on Trump supporter’s land, you could build your fence. There’s a go-fund-me for the wall, put your money where your mouth is. It wouldn’t solve the illegal immigration problem, but at least you would have the satisfaction of driving up to it and saying, “I own about a sliver of one of those ugly fence slats.”

      • Redbud January 12, 2019 at 12:48 am

        Henry, I actually donated $5 to the GoFundMe for the wall, but they offered me a refund because I guess their lawyers could not find a way to legally transfer the money to the government, and help pay for the wall, so I got my $5 back. If Mexico won’t pay for the wall, there are many of us who are willing to pay for it. I knew my money probably would get returned to me at the time I donated a few weeks ago, but it was the thought that counted. If I was a multibillionaire, I would fund the wall myself if they’d take the money, and I would expect nothing in return, it would be my gift to our country. As far as ugly slats go, you can’t blame that on Trump, they won’t give him the money. Also, I am not going to look up the numbers so I will just go off your numbers for convenience, even if the wall stops one person from crossing and all the problems it brings with it, the money has been well spent.

        • ladybugavenger January 12, 2019 at 9:28 am

          I would also donate $ for the wall.

        • Comment January 12, 2019 at 4:52 pm

          I think the steel slat fence would be quite pretty compared to a solid concrete wall. First we build the wall then we get a roundup going and send them all back home, anchor babies and all.

  • ladybugavenger January 11, 2019 at 8:13 pm

    You are not worth my time to dig up your comments.

    • Comment January 11, 2019 at 11:00 pm

      B&F has done a fair amount of name calling. I wouldn’t want to go back thru b&f’s old posts looking for it. Would be like diving into the sewer and taking a swim, lol.

      • bikeandfish January 12, 2019 at 12:10 am

        #Fail.

        First, I have definitely named NickDanger a few times, explicitly white supremacist, ethno-nationalist, etc. As I’ve pointed out, he has constantly made statements that reach that threshold. I think few people do even in they utilize certain -isms.

        I’ve also highlighted, multiple times in the last 18+ months, why naming behavior is fundamentally different than making it about the person’s identity. We voluntarily present ideas in public. Those ideas are fair game for scrutiny. Its the reason our founders protected free speech so vehemently. Folks may find that criticism and naming uncomfortable but to put it bluntly, its not my job to protect someone’s comfort. The marketplace of ideas isn’t about feelings. That’s especially true regarding disagreements on public policy.

        The irony in your exaggerated claim is (A) I think I am only one of few people who corrects myself and apologizes for missteps (which I’ve done with you recently) and (B) in regards to LBA I haven’t discounted her religion or faith in the fashion you have. In fact, I’ve used the doctrine of her own religion and saviour to expose how inconsistent her statements are with it. You don’t do that if you don’t inherently value religious freedom and pluralism. Even “pity” is based in a recognition to another’s values. I’m not Christian and in fact have been negatively affected by its practioners. But that doesn’t stop me from recognizing it provides value to others. Just don’t use your religion as dogma against me and fellow citizens without recognizing I will highlight the hypocrisy and harm in that choice.

        If someone can show me a quote were I named them harshly I will look into it and apologize if it wasn’t justified like I stated above (ie the person exposes a long term trend in behavior that justifies breaching that threshold). But you need to provide the hyperlink to the article so context is clear. Folks cherrypick like crazy here so that’s necessary.

        On the other hand, I will not apologize for naming ideas, claims or behavior harshly. At some point some things are rightfully named for what they truly are especially when they are repeated with no justification and remorse.

        • Comment January 12, 2019 at 4:57 pm

          Well, if I ever find out one of my posts is just wrong then I would retract it and apologize also. The only thing that really matters in this case is… the illegals already here need to be sent home, and the ones trying to sneak in need to be walled out.

  • Henry January 11, 2019 at 11:29 pm

    Howard – you’ve done your make-believe job by stirring up the far-right conspiracy theorists who believe what you’ve written must be important – and correct – if it’s in print. There’s print on my toilet paper more relevant than your writing.

    • bikeandfish January 12, 2019 at 12:17 am

      I actually wonder if Howard actually believes his “anti-American” claims or if they have become a reflexive habit of his hyperpartisanship. I truly don’t know but default to assuming he presents ideas sincerely.

      PS…I look back to my initial disagreement with you about “developing world” (summer 2017) language with some regret. I think the dialogue could have been different if I had analyzed your statements differently. I still think the phrase is problematic but that wasn’t your intent at the time. My sincerest of apologies. Always much to learn. I don’t have to agree with people to learn from them.

    • Redbud January 12, 2019 at 12:22 am

      You’re just mad that Howard spoke the truth, and the truth is a …!
      Ed. ellipsis

  • ladybugavenger January 12, 2019 at 9:55 am

    I think b&f is jealous of “atheist” Bob and LBA. He cant quite figure out why I like “atheist” Bob and I don’t like agnostic b&f. Well, let me try and help you. Bob is not an arrogant blowhard that blows word vomit on my comments like you and he has never used the Bible against me. I’ve been commenting for about 7 years. Bob has been commenting a while too. I can respect his choice of “atheist” and he respects me. I actually think Bob has more Christian values than some Christians and less “atheist” values than atheist.

    If you want my respect b&f you are going to have to find another angle.

    • bikeandfish January 12, 2019 at 10:52 am

      I’m not after your respect.

    • Comment January 12, 2019 at 4:59 pm

      I didn’t know this site was here for 7 years, lol.

      • ladybugavenger January 12, 2019 at 7:10 pm

        I’m just guessing lol. I dont remember what year I started commenting but it was after 2011. I know I’ve already been in oklahoma for 2 years. Feels like yesterday haha!

  • Craig January 12, 2019 at 10:52 am

    Good point that agitating politicians and other political operatives must keep “nothing” issues alive to continue the non-stop banter on issues that must be solved by bigger government programs so non-critical thinking public can cheer. This in turn secures voters that want action in which politicians then act and/or vote on “behalf” of their constitutients. Hogwash. It seems that this approach creates a mini-Hegelian Dialectic. For vevery situation, there must be a response whether it is real or not. So, the Hegelian Dialectic approach takes a problem, hypes it up, creates an antithesis reaction, which in turn results in synthesis real action solution towards the antithesis, but not necessarily the original problem. https://www.rooshv.com/what-is-the-hegelian-dialectic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_F4WomLlq0 (2:34)

  • Redbud January 12, 2019 at 2:21 pm

    American Center for Law and Justice reported:

    Walls are about letting good people in, and keeping bad people out.

    Illustrating this point yesterday, CNN’s Jim Acosta reported that steel barriers work to keep borders safe and peaceful.

    Today on the show, we discussed how CNN correspondent Jim Acosta – a notoriously vocal critic of the President and the wall – reported live from McAllen, Texas, along our southern border with Mexico, and observed that where a wall comprised of steel slats currently stands, all is well.

    Acosta reported:

    “Here are some of the steel slats that the President’s been talking about,” Acosta said while reporting from the southern border. “But as we’re walking along here, we’re not seeing any kind of imminent danger.”

    Well said, Jim. I believe that’s exactly the President’s point.

    Acosta has been celebrated by the liberal mainstream media for his continual criticism of the President. But yesterday when actually reporting the facts, he openly observed that the area around the steel wall actually seemed “tranquil.”

    This CNN report was clearly meant to undermine and mock President Trump, and yet what it actually did was hammer home how effective the wall is, and why we need to enhance and expand our border protection.

    Acosta reported he saw “no migrants trying to rush toward this fence.” Once again, that’s the idea. The wall works. It discourages illegal immigration, hampering efforts by those we don’t want here, like drug smugglers, gang members, and human traffickers, from entering our country. This is proven by reports from the border patrol agents who actually have data showing the marked decrease in border crossings where there is a wall.

    • Comment January 12, 2019 at 5:04 pm

      I become more and more convinced we need a wall. After the wall: a full roundup. B&F, I’m willing to pay a lot more for tomatoes and other assorted fruits. It’s time to send them all home.

  • bikeandfish January 12, 2019 at 8:14 pm

    A quick truncated Google search and to my sincere surprise I realized RedBud has been at this longer than I remember. Makes me rethink my tactic in focusing on his behavior instead of his person. Especially given his statements here with Nick Danger:

    https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2017/08/22/on-the-edge-the-dixie-myth/#.XDqgzx5lCyV

    He’s been spouting this “true American” stuff for a while. As well as putting words in my mouth.

    • Redbud January 13, 2019 at 12:09 am

      Bike, go ahead and Google away and waste your time and breath. I won’t be brought down, I can guarantee you that. If our country ever erupted in civil war (which I sincerely hope we don’t), I would have absolutely no problem defending what I believe in and I would fight along side those who want freedom over oppression. It’s a no-brainer because we all know who would win. They won the first time and we would win again.

      • bikeandfish January 13, 2019 at 11:17 am

        Civil War?

      • bikeandfish January 13, 2019 at 11:41 am

        In all seriousness, Redbud, what type of oppression from the government are you experiencing, currently? What freedoms have you lost in the last two years? You do realize that “the enemy of the people” you vilify have almost zero political power to get anything done with a republican Senate and POTUS, right?

        Even your economic justifications for a wall aren’t directly related to your freedom or finances. Yet your approach is militant and escalated as if there is some imminent threat. I don’t see how you benefit from that level of unwarranted vigilance. Nor is it remotely scaled to what’s actually happening.

        • Redbud January 13, 2019 at 7:41 pm

          With Trump at the helm, we don’t have to worry too much about oppression, so we are good until 2024 since he will reign until that time. You have again completely and falsely misinterpreted what I said. The wall is related to freedom, it is freedom from paying for the consequences of illegal immigration. Legal immigration is no problem. One day you will understand, and you come to your senses, but by that time it may be too late. That’s why we need to act now and aggressively protect our freedoms at all costs.

          • bikeandfish January 13, 2019 at 8:33 pm

            Is Trump our king now?

            Reign: (verb) hold royal office; rule as king or queen

            Your conclusion about oppression is beyond ironic given that language you voluntarily used. Its not like our country was founded on escaping the oppression of royalty or anything.

            Your definition makes no sense. You spin and pivot so much that I think you have confused yourself in the insuing dizziness. Its funny that I ask you a direct question and actually take you at face value but that means I “completely and falsely misinterpreted what you said”.

            I’m getting the sense you don’t even understand yourself.

        • Redbud January 13, 2019 at 9:40 pm

          I have never referred to Trump as a King. You have been caught in a lie again, and you foolishly twist the meaning of my words. Again, you completely and falsely misinterpreted what I said. You got Trumped again!

          • bikeandfish January 13, 2019 at 10:52 pm

            You said:

            “so we are good until 2024 since he will reign until that time”

            Reign: (verb) hold royal office; rule as king or queen

            Your own voluntary words, Redbud.

          • bikeandfish January 13, 2019 at 11:05 pm

            PS…. question marks imply uncertainty, ie a question. No lie on my part as I asked a question, though very pointed. You are the one who used a verb that deals with monarchial or supreme power, neither of which our president has constitutionally. Assuming you actually know the definitions of the language you use doesn’t make me a liar.

        • Redbud January 14, 2019 at 2:27 pm

          Yes you are a liar and you have proven that. Keep making things up, only makes you look like a fool. You are part of the swamp being drained, so you are helping Trump fulfill his prophecy.

          • bikeandfish January 14, 2019 at 3:51 pm

            Once I again, I’ll provide you an opportunity to support your accusations. Cite my lie in this interaction.

            But here is the thing, if you make another false allegation I’ll use your exact words to expose your fraudulent claims for what they are. It takes me very little time to defend my claims when you have volunteered up the evidence yourself.

            On another note, if I’m “part of the swamp” than how is he succeeding at “draining it”? I mean, I started commenting after he was elected and haven’t exactly disappeared or been “deprived of strength or vitality.” I can’t wait to see you explain this one. Better than a Vegas show and free.

        • Redbud January 14, 2019 at 6:10 pm

          I don’t have to defend myself, the truth is in the pudding. You falsely stated that I said Trump was a King, when I have never done such. I have not even implied that he was King, so you again have been caught lying. I will explain the swamp part better so you understand. Trump is President, and he’s doing an excellent job so far, so the liberals who are against Trump don’t like this. They try and try and try to get their point across, but their voice is lost in the wind. This is what has happened to you. You can complain about Trump all you want, you can even yell and scream and throw a tantrum, but your words are lost in the wind, not much unlike a ship lost at sea being tossed to a fro. So you are correct, physically you have not been drained, but in every other way you have been drained with the swamp, along with everyone else. Don’t get mad at me for it, you can blame Trump, but he will just wave a smile back as you continue to sink further and further down, with the draining swamp.

          • bikeandfish January 14, 2019 at 6:37 pm

            Hehe, the only lie appears to be your false allegation that I claimed you said Trump was King. You can’t support that allegation because its a lie. Here, I’ll link my exact statement again:

            “Is Trump our king now?

            Reign: (verb) hold royal office; rule as king or queen”

            Like I said, I’m not even certain you understand what your claims are anymore. I mean you don’t even seem to understand what a question entails. Reminds me of Isaac Asimov’s prescient quote:

            “The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”

            Not only is your ignorance (our president does not “reign” over anything) obviously dangerous to our democracy but it also serves you up as cannon fodder for the whims of tyrants. It harms you doubly.

    • Redbud January 14, 2019 at 7:12 pm

      Your again lie, so you are the one hurt, not me. You just sunk deeper into the swamp at your own peril.

      • bikeandfish January 14, 2019 at 9:00 pm

        But if you are draining the swamp how can I get deeper into it? Or am I on a ship still? What is the metaphor again?

        Sincerely,

        A voice lost in the wind who keeps hearing some random dude yell “you just got Trumped” while a boat floats aimlessly by yet is also sinking deeper into a draining swamp

        • Redbud January 14, 2019 at 11:44 pm

          Bike, you just don’t understand the whole swamp thing, but it’s ok, there is forgiveness.

Leave a Reply

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.