On the EDge: President a stranger to eloquence

Composite image including images courtesy of Pixabay, St. George News

OPINION — The fact that the president has a foul mouth is neither shocking nor appalling to me.

He will never be regarded in terms of Winston Churchill, John F. Kennedy or Abraham Lincoln when it comes to his oratory.

His linguistics are simple, terse, often crude, as we have seen during his long tenure in public life.

He is a stranger to eloquence and has yet to explore the nuance and beauty of the English language.

Thus, our expectations are rather low.

He isn’t the first of course, to fill the White House with expletives, and it isn’t by any stretch of the imagination a partisan trait. The walls have heard more than their share of salacious repartee, vitriolic spasm and angry invective. Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon come to mind for their foul, bigoted language. And, of course, Harry Truman’s famous quote about why he fired Gen. Douglas MacArthur as the supreme commander for the Allied Powers in Korea – “I didn’t fire him because he was a dumb son of a bitch, although he was, but that’s not against the laws for generals. If it was, half to three-quarters of them would be in jail,” he said – would certainly not have gotten his point across as strongly.

But, it’s one thing to wage one-on-one verbal warfare and quite another to demean, disparage and denigrate an entire race of people, which is why the lines of decorum and decency were crossed the other day when the president insulted Haitians and the African continent during a discussion about immigration.

“Haitians? Why do we need more Haitians?” he said, according to sources at the meeting.

Later, as the discussion veered into the area of the diversity lottery, the president referred to people coming from Africa as coming from “s—hole countries” and wondered aloud why there aren’t more people from Norway interested in coming to the United States.

That, folks, whether you like it or not, is racism.

Of course, I hardly expect agreement here particularly in light of the result from a recent Gallup Poll that revealed that in terms of job approval among people who identify themselves as members of a religious organization, 61 percent of those who claim membership in the Mormon faith think he’s doing a good job. Protestant and other Christian faiths came in second at 48 percent, Catholics gave him a 38 percent approval rating, those from the Jewish community offered 26 percent approval, 23 percent of those with no religious affiliation or who claim to be atheists or agnostics gave him a thumb’s up, those from other non-Christian religions came in at 22 percent

And, not surprisingly, Muslims were at the bottom of that approval list, with only 18 percent approving of his work. The latest overall Gallup Poll had him at a general across-the-board approval rating of 39 percent.

Of course, this was before the latest comments about Haiti and Africa.

As I recall, Utah and members of the LDS faith were quick to respond when a horrific earthquake struck the nation eight years ago. I remember planeloads of supplies – from food and water to medicine – being airlifted to help in the aftermath. It was a generous outpouring of humanitarian aid.

And, of course, Utah is home to Mia Love, the first Haitian-American woman elected to Congress. Although she flies under a very conservative banner, she was emotionally distraught at the president’s comments. In a statement posted on her Twitter account she said: “The President’s comments are unkind, divisive, elitist and fly in the face of our nation’s values. This behavior is unacceptable from the leader of our nation. My parents came from one of those countries but proudly took an oath of allegiance to the United States and took on the responsibilities of everything that being a citizen comes with.

“They never took a thing from our federal government. They worked hard, paid taxes and rose from nothing to take care of and provide opportunities for their children. They taught their children to do the same. That’s the American Dream. The President must apologize to both the American people and the nations he so wantonly maligned.”

How long the president’s support lingers in Utah, where 52 percent of the entire population approves of his efforts, remains to be seen.

My guess is it will remain strong as long as there is an “R” next to his name on the ballot.

Apologists have claimed that the president was simply being “authentic,” as Fox News talking head Sean Hannity said; that “…this is how the forgotten men and women in America talk at the bar,” Jesse Waters, another Fox News pundit, said. In fairness, it must be noted that the regulars on “Fox and Friends,” the president’s favorite cable news program, called him on his words and suggested he walk back his comments.

The thing is, however, that once words are uttered, they cannot be taken back.

They are out there.

You can’t erase them.

You can try to spin them all you wish, but their meaning, especially in a circumstance like this, is clear.

And, we get the message.

This is yet another layer of the character of a president whose words have been supportive of the neo-Nazi movement; a president who has scorned the Constitution and 1st Amendment by excoriating professional athletes who participated in peaceful protest; a president whose blatant misogyny and disregard for women has been dismissed as “locker room talk;” a president who has disparaged Mexico claiming the country only sends rapists and drug dealers to the United States, then punctuated it when he threw shade on a federal judge of Mexican heritage who was presiding over a class-action lawsuit against Trump University.

It goes back farther than that.

In 1973 his housing management company came under the microscope of the Justice Department Civil Rights Division. He and his father were accused of keeping black and Puerto Rican people out of their apartments. The lawsuit was settled out of court.

There was the ridiculous “birther” attack on President Barack Obama, an unfounded piece of racist detritus that he milked for years in his run-up to his second attempt at the White House – his first being in 2000 when he tried to secure the Reform Party nomination.

Look, the greatness of the United States is not measured in the whiteness of the United States.

It is measured by the heart and soul of the United States, which for centuries gave it a rightful stance of moral authority among nations.

We embraced, for the most part, a greater world, even when we had to cloak our own cultural and racial prejudices, and extended a hand to our neighbors. Although we didn’t always practice what we preached, there was an understanding that the effort, the basics of equality that were not fully placed into motion, were a part of our moral fabric; that although we do not all share color or creed we all share a common humanity.

We have lost that.

We have become a nation short on inclusion and heavy on exclusion as we dive into a white nationalist isolationism that has taken root.

With statements such as his most recent defamation of Haiti and Africa, the president is sowing those seeds of separatism and a false elitism that places us in grave danger as a nation.

No bad days!

Ed Kociela is an opinion columnist for St. George News. The opinions stated in this article are his own and may not be representative of St. George News.

Email: [email protected]

Twitter: @STGnews, @EdKociela

Copyright St. George News, SaintGeorgeUtah.com LLC, 2018, all rights reserved.

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  • John January 16, 2018 at 8:44 am

    Special Ed takes out the trash again ! Get some treatment for that Trump Derangement Syndrome Eddy ! You are turning the St George News into a s##thole paper..

    • John January 16, 2018 at 12:39 pm

      My name is John and I cannot come up with my own ideas, so I steal them from Fox and Friends and post them as my own.

  • bikeandfish January 16, 2018 at 10:05 am

    Thoughtful write up, Ed. Trump’s recent comments are hideous but not isolated from his clear racism. We need to name it and hold him accountable.

    I was shocked to see the Gallup poll numbers about support from the LDS but I have hope that will change. As more folks unpack the ethno-nationalism he supports they will start to understand its dangerous implications. Folks here have talked about assimilating to WASP culture, which the LDS aren’t considered part of by most Protestant Christians or historical doctrine. That alone should give pause given Trump’s comfort with white nationalist.

    I hope we see more Congressman call him out. Time will tell though.

  • John January 16, 2018 at 10:48 am

    Anytime bikeandfish makes a longwinded redundant comment is a victory for conservatives.. you are getting ed’s
    sh##hole opinion all wet with your melting, They have pills for that Trump derangement Syndrome , you little big headed snowflake.. get over yourself, you aren’t that smart, just a pompous blowhard just like special eddy!

    • tcrider January 16, 2018 at 11:22 am

      johnboy, you been watching too much fox tv, it will make you a very bitter and its bad for your health.
      your traveling chewing tobacco salesman daddy told you too many lies when you were a little knobber.

      the dungle trump, never my stinking pile

    • John January 16, 2018 at 12:34 pm

      It must be nice to sit on your a$$ all day collecting your unemployment or disability check while making such hateful comments all day long. It is people like you who make this country so bad. Maybe you should actually meet and talk to a liberal before you attack them. Here is a link so you can get some help with your anger issues. http://www.premiercounselingservices.org/anger-management/

      • John January 16, 2018 at 1:11 pm

        what a bunch of crybaby snowflakes wetting yourselves. hahahaha! libtards, turning America into a [email protected]@hole one eddy opinion at a time, never seen so many closed minded jerks in my life., go the ….* back to california! Melt where somebody actually cares and take your coloring books with you! Reality proves you wrong no matter how much you deny it..

        * Ed. ellipsis added.

        • dons8120 January 16, 2018 at 2:37 pm

          Who is Ed ellipsis, is that your other personality? How many do you have?

        • tcrider January 16, 2018 at 2:47 pm

          johnboy, this place is gona be just like California pretty soon, my relatives are moving
          here by the multitudes and probably even are considered your neighbors by now.
          your deep rooted bitterness can only be caused by too much inbreeding, meaning
          like there probably was some confusion between who your mama is, either your dads
          wife or your older sister, your nationalist views are really not main stream and will be
          considered dinosaur eggs within a years time. You really belong on the bundy ranch with
          the rest of your single branched family tree.

          • Southpaw January 16, 2018 at 4:39 pm

            tcrider: Why in the world would you want this place to turn into California? Think about it. Liquor stores on every corner, bars on the windows of homes and businesses, graffiti everywhere, drive-by shootings, day laborers loitering in the parking lots of home improvement stores, spray cans of paint locked in a cage, high taxes, poverty, stupid gun laws, CRV tax, high sales tax, high gas tax, high property tax, etc., etc., etc.

            You must be a fan of Governor Brown. You’re a “granola”.

          • tcrider January 16, 2018 at 4:51 pm


          • tcrider January 16, 2018 at 4:56 pm

            hi southpaw,
            I never heard of granola and looked it up, yes you could call me
            a granola, a person that dresses like a hippy and eats health food.
            I only wanted to have st george be like california to annoy johnboy.
            and I did see a group of day laborers loitering near the home depot on
            sunset and our taxes will really start going up when or if the pipeline
            gets here.

  • chris keele January 16, 2018 at 11:15 am

    I suppose Ed thinks that being “eloquent” is somehow a litmus test on how a Commander in Chief is supposed to conduct himself, I imagine Ed thinks that Obama was eloquent the way he deliberately attempted to subvert the rule of law with his incompetent, underhanded, anti American methods he exhibited at every opportunity. Keep your eloquence Ed and all you other progressive tendencies.

    • bikeandfish January 16, 2018 at 1:18 pm

      Yes, I think its fair to assume Ed thinks eloquence is an appropriate standard for the POTUS. It seems like a minimum expectation:

      Eloquent: adjective: clearly expressing or indicating something; fluent or persuasive in speaking or writing

      Both of those definitions seem fair standards of practice for the “leader of the free world”. Why wouldn’t you want the POTUS to clearly express themselves? Isn’t a successful leader one that is persuasive?

      The rest of your comment is a tangent from the substance of Ed’s article. Deflection like that isn’t an effective way of countering ideas , though it is a common technique die hard partisans. Trump is the current president and any citizen that cares about the union should be open to criticizing its leader.

    • John January 16, 2018 at 1:55 pm

      Hey delusional donny, How are you today? Are you still in denial of reality? hahahahahaha!

      • dons8120 January 16, 2018 at 2:38 pm

        I am doing really well thank you.

  • chris keele January 16, 2018 at 3:20 pm

    No, In mine and a lot of Americans opinions, eloquence is not really all that high on the list of necessary character traits, I like the person as President of the United States to be patriotic, God fearing,respectful of the military and law enforcement and our fire fighters, capable of figuring out how to turn our economy around like he has done, completely eliminate ISIS in one year,being genuinely concerned about the welfare of our citizens etc etc. things like that, eloquence is down the list like being so politically correct, a little will go a long way.

    • bikeandfish January 16, 2018 at 3:39 pm

      You do realize Obama satisfied all (except ISIL, which is questionable)of those check boxes as well, correct? While also being eloquent while Trump remains one of the most abrasive and ineloquent Presidents in our lifetime.

      • ladybugavenger January 16, 2018 at 5:13 pm

        That abrasivness is exactly why I voted for him! I love the egotistic, abrasive, non conforming, getting **** done and making deals for Americans! I love Trump!

        • bikeandfish January 16, 2018 at 6:35 pm

          Its a cute concept but jumping from abrasiveness to getting stuff is likely more a statement of justification then relevance. He’s had an average first year on actually getting anything done and many of his claims of success have proven false (see Carrier job fiasco). That is especially true about immigration in relationship to his most recent “abrasive” comment.

          Unfortunately, voters will go to signing leaps to justify their candidates behavior in the face of cognitive dissonance. As much true for Trump as it was Obama (noble peace prize for drone killer).

          • ladybugavenger January 17, 2018 at 6:11 am

            You mean ****hole countries. He didn’t lie, they are, that’s why people want to come to America. He didn’t say ****hole people.

            There wasn’t an uproar in 2013 when Lindsey Graham called them hellhole countries.

            I laugh at the hypocrisy.

            This is a hate Trump movement, but he’s handling it just fine. Better than any one of us could.

            All of you couch psychiatrist are bringing shame to the industry.

          • bikeandfish January 17, 2018 at 9:48 am

            What does psychiatry have to do with this? Highlighting Trump’s racism isn’t about his assumed mental health (a lame tactic on the left).

            First, Graham wasn’t POTUS
            Second, his colleague, Jeff Sessions actually corrected him immediately during the committee meeting. Thats what people with humanity and dignity due when a person in power steps way out of line. And Graham acknowledged the mistake and corrected himself. Thats what someone with integrity does, assuming they don’t value racism.

            Trump never apologizes for these remarks because they represent his actual values and beliefs. This isn’t the first blatant racist transgression in his life, nonetheless during his campaign and time in office. Trump didn’t accidently court white supremacists and constantly write off their hatred. He didn’t accidently talk abrasively about countries predominantly populated by people of color, from the “Muslim Ban” (his original words) to his recent comments.

            His supporters are at a crossroads. You can still support him with integrity but call him out for his transgressions like this. Calling historical and current allies derogatory names like this is not ethical or moral. But if supporters like you don’t start holding him to task then you become complicit in his racism and its very real effects.

          • ladybugavenger January 17, 2018 at 5:58 pm

            I’ll be very disappointed if a wall is not built. It will be the biggest let down of my lifetime

          • ladybugavenger January 17, 2018 at 6:03 pm

            I don’t see that he’s a racist, all I see is people calling him racist. I want a wall! I don’t want illegal immigrants and I’m not a racist. You want to meet a racist? Meet my husband! He brings race into everything but he’s native American, whay the hell are you gonna do lol

            You give him the wall and daca kids will get pathway to legalization. The wall is needed! Control the border. And the little illegal people here will get legal….it’s a win win!

          • bikeandfish January 17, 2018 at 7:29 pm

            The wall is only one issue of immigration but not the one directly related to his “hole” comment.

            I am rather neutral on a barrier on the border. I am not a fan of dropping $10 billion on a wall Trump promised citizens wouldn’t pay for but that was never a genuine claim.

            I have no control, indirect or direct, over the immigration conversation or the budget. Most of the Utah reps seem pretty set in their ways so I am not sure what a moderate could do to influence them at this point either way.

            Lets hope they, the Congress in general don’t shut down the government this week. No one benefits when that happens.

          • ladybugavenger January 18, 2018 at 6:36 am

            I did laugh at the Mexico will pay for it comment. I never believed it, but I voted for the wall anyway. However, I do believe once the wall is built, there will be an import tax from Mexico’s goods coming to America to pay back for the wall.

            I don’t even mind paying a tax to fund the wall. I did mind the cash payment obama made to Iran. I’m tired of financially supporting other countries when America was becoming a ….

            Ed. ellipsis.

          • ladybugavenger January 18, 2018 at 11:19 am

            I was edited lol…..you know what I said!

        • bikeandfish January 18, 2018 at 4:23 pm

          But by your logic, LBA, the complaints against our former president could just as easily be written off as a “hate Obama movement”? See how that works?

          The strategy of constantly deferring accountability, well at least for the negative, to the previous president harms a democracy. Start holding your candidate accountable or you are no better than the people you rail against.

          • ladybugavenger January 18, 2018 at 5:14 pm

            No one spoke up about hating Obama in fear of being called a racist. I did , but, no one cares what I say lol. Hold truump accountable? No one cares what i say lol.

      • ladybugavenger January 18, 2018 at 8:13 pm

        I learned at a very young age not to trust people and that actions speak louder than words. You can fight words all day, you can hear I love you all day, but its the actions that show a person if the words are true or false. Cynical? Perhaps…I trust no one, so don’t think I put all my trust in Trump or any other public official. I test everything.

        Good or bad, I like the pompous a$$. I like the conflict. I like watching this circus….get your popcorn…

        • bikeandfish January 18, 2018 at 10:23 pm

          His bread and circus antics harm people every day. If this is a true statement, and not just a trolling post, then the you are complicit. Its also one of the most unChristian things I have read in a while. The Jesus you claim to recognize stood for everything opposite of the catharsis you just described.

  • eddantes56 January 16, 2018 at 6:42 pm

    “the greatness of the United States is not measured in the whiteness of the United States….It is measured by the heart and soul of the United States.”

    What is heart and soul? Not an argument Ed. You seem to be really triggered by any tie between the heart and soul of the U.S. with WASP culture.

    • bikeandfish January 16, 2018 at 11:41 pm

      Because its never been solely about “WASP culture”. You do realize that has actually been a pejorative term for much of history, right? In fact, the “W” meant wealthy and tapped into to a specific part of Americanism that has long had a tension with elitism. And it inherently excludes many other “god fearing” citizens that practice other religions like Catholicism, Judaism and even our local LDS. That means roughly 80 million Americans are considered part of American culture.

      There is a reason the ethno-nationalism focused on WASP culture is considered racist and your fascination with it is a major red flag. And before people jump it, that is not the same as individuals and communities being proud of their “Anglo” heritage. The problem is when you enforce a type of assimilation through government mechanisms to adhere to a culture you consider dominant. Its undemocratic and inhumane.

  • eddantes56 January 16, 2018 at 6:46 pm

    No other country is expected to accommodate immigrants and “fundamentally transform” its culture to their whims, habits, customs and morals, no matter how dysfunctional they might be.

    In Japan, Saudi Arabia, Peru, India, et al. You are expected to appreciate the native culture and they would laugh if not sort you out if you tried to go to any other country and say that you would like them to accommodate your non-Japanese, Saudi culture.

    • bikeandfish January 16, 2018 at 10:38 pm

      Related how? Is that supposed to be some contorted rationalization of Trump’s comments about Haiti and Africa?

  • LeighMeagan January 16, 2018 at 8:45 pm

    Patriotic = he never served in the military and neither did any of his children.
    God fearing = 3 marriages, how many affairs and only goes to church when photogs are around to capture the moment.
    genuinely concerned about the welfare of its citizens = tell that to the coal miners who will never get their jobs back, Wal-Mart gives raises and bonuses but then shutters many of their Sam’s Clubs leaving many unemployed, steel has gone to China, the automakers have plants in Mexico where the workers get squat for wages, and the list goes on and on. Now he wants drilling in the pristine Arctic, fracking to cause more earthquakes, mining and drilling on public land that will ruin it for future generation. They have already found oil spills in the Grand Staircase Escalante.
    figuring out how to turn our economy around = My Ira’s and 401k’s were doing fine under Obama, Bush the younger caused the recession and Obama’s policies brought us out it.
    My bet is on impeachment, removal from office or him quitting. BTW where are his tax returns?

  • Ladyk January 16, 2018 at 9:43 pm

    Ed, I think you have had it to good living here in Utah. You live off the wonder and beauty that the LDS people have built all the while complaining about us. Over and over we read as you spew your hatred of our religion and our way of life but you tuen and easily call someone else a racist. Not one thing the President said had anything to do with race. He didn’t say can we only have white people move here. You assume that only white people live in Finland and only Black people live in Haiti or Africa. Granted the predominate race in these countries may be one or the other but that’s not what the President said. You twist his words and meaning with your evil intent.

    I think you could probably take 100 people to these countries and a good portion of them with utter the same words, IF those are the words he said. So how about an honest answer Ed. Say tomorrow is your retirement day and someone says “hey Ed for your retirement we are going to buy you a home and you have 3 choices. Haiti, Africa or Finland, what would your choice be?

    Whatever you choose I hope that your heart is not as heartless as your words. This wonderful State and this community could sure use a break from your hate.

    • bikeandfish January 16, 2018 at 10:46 pm

      You are kidding about defending Trump’s obvious racism while condemning Ed’s criticisms, right? I agree Ed can be insulting but it’s nothing compared to the POTUS who actually represents our country.

      And the more Trump’s supporters constantly justify his racists words and deeds the more y’all become complicit. What he says and does flies in the face of every dignified religious doctrine of citizens of this country, especially the LDS who seem to value a specific type of kindness of spirit. Its time to start calling him out, again, like folks did during the RNC primary before he chosen to be their candidate.

  • Mike January 17, 2018 at 12:12 am

    I must say the media has gone WAY over the edge covering this non-story! We all know President Trump lacks eloquence and tact. He tells it like it is! If indeed he uttered these words to describe Haiti and African nations, he lacked political correctness but committed no crime. The First Amendment applies to Donald Trump as well as to the rest of us. What he has accomplished during his first year in office far outweighs any “mean things” he might say that could “offend” the snowflakes of the world. These countries are indeed cesspools, and he is absolutely correct in his description…IF indeed he did say these “hurtful” words. The word “racism” is the most overused word in the English language. Let’s move on to REAL issues. Get over it, snowflakes!

    • jaybird January 17, 2018 at 8:46 am

      So glad Trump became president. Now everyone can see just how bad it can get. No friends, no money left behind after corruption with thugs and crooks and wealthy run out of town with it, ongoing ponzi schemes, and corrupted religion that seeks only personal gain. Its going to be great selling pencils for a living.

  • commonsense January 17, 2018 at 8:00 am

    Haitians and Africans refer to nationality, not race.
    Hitler was eloquent, convincing and preached socialism.

    • bikeandfish January 17, 2018 at 9:34 am

      Ugh, Africa isn’t a nation, its a continent. Its compromised of 50+ nationalities with distinct cultures and societies. Writing off an entire continent largely compromised of people of color is definitely race. Racism has always included ethnicity.

      Not even gonna shy away from satisfying Godwin’s Law, huh? Eloquence = Hitler, that is lazy and sloppy.

  • John January 17, 2018 at 10:37 am

    Did anyone complain about eloquence when Bill Clinton got oral service in the Oval Office and then lied about it?. Liberal and democrat politicians are nothing but theives and hypocrites.. Keep voting for them sheeple !

    • bikeandfish January 17, 2018 at 11:14 am

      Going back 20 years to a completely unrelated incident? Talk about desperate.

      I do believe Republicans took Clinton to task. Maybe you remember the impeachment proceedings, grand jury, etc. His “it depends on what the meaning of is is” has been ridiculed for two decades. Even the much maligned, by those parroting right wing talking points, Washington Post openly used the “slick willie” nickname against Clinton in the 90s.

      So to your answer, yes, folks did criticize Bill Clinton about his screw ups, his ridiculous use of language to obscure truth, and overall diminishment of the POTUS. And folks on the left are currently talking about how he tarnished the White House and how its affected our country (Weinstein scandal).

      You actually proved a point against Trump.

      • John January 17, 2018 at 2:59 pm

        It’s not unrelated.. Where was the outrage when Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama Murdered 4 men in Benghazi http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2014/06/17/hillary-benghazi-criminal/ .. Where is the outrage over the missing billions of dollars in aid that went missing after the Clinton Foundation got a hold of it. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/437883/hillarys-america-secret-history-democratic-party-dinesh-dsouza-clinton-foundation It’s not irrelevant.. Liberal democrats are hypocrites and thieves.. The words that Trump supposedly used were actually the words of Durbin https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/14/politics/david-perdue-kirstjen-nielsen-daca/index.html .. .You sheep will follow any carrot the msm throws in front of you. Never in history have there ever been as many misinformed jerks in the country.. What’s it going to be tomorrow? Donald Trump steps on the ground when he walks.. you people are such nit picky little small minded meat puppets.. You are all sick with main stream media induced Trump Derangement Syndrome..only the truth can set you free !!

        • bikeandfish January 17, 2018 at 4:15 pm

          Swing and a miss.

          Partisans constantly want to deflect attention away from their candidate. You are a prime example. Anything but accountability. Folks like you put ideology ahead of truth and integrity when it comes to politicians in their camp. All the while crying foul of the other side for their hypocrisy. The irony is thick and ruins governance.

          I’ve called Ed to task for this as much as those on the right. The difference is Trump is our president right now and speaking truth to power is key to a democracy. I’ll do it when its the D in office just as easily and when democrats predictably do anything to protect their own.

          Respected journalist have verified the story and quotes and it fits in within his historic behavior. And even most of his supporters know it, as proven by their empty justifications. And then there are the Nick’s of the world who openly celebrate the obvious racism.

          • John January 17, 2018 at 6:01 pm

            He’s not my candidate.. he’s the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES..And you are so mis-informed and out of touch with reality that you are a JOKE ! Upset over words HE DIDN”T SAY.. Jeesh Keep listening to those nazi-propaganda dispensers on the main stream media outlets and you start to sound just like them.. All you ever do is spout the most popular liberal talking point of the day,, never an original thought of your own.. and besides all that, you are very good at taking 400 words to say what could have been said in 6.. almost like a confused liberal transgender woman..It must really suck to be you. My mother taught me not to make fun of the mentally challenged , but in your case I have to make an exception. It is apparent you are special eddy’s Siamese twin connected at the head at birth and separated and ed got the brain. When you are out biking i bet you take three lefts to make a right..Always the long way to get nowhere.. Get something done about that TRUMP DERANGEMENT SYNDROME you sound like a big crybaby that fell of her bike and scraped your knees.. waaah waaah waaah! hahahahahahahahaha!

          • bikeandfish January 17, 2018 at 7:34 pm

            He is your candidate as that is a common term for describing someone you support and vote for. I didn’t vote for him but recognize he is our President. Never once denied that yet you seem to want to create burn that strawman down every time.

            Best of luck, John. You are a persistent, hateful troll who doesn’t even succeed at getting people to react, ie “triggered”. At least try to become better at your craft if this is the route you are so committed to. I mean snowflake and melting was already worn out in 2016.

          • John January 17, 2018 at 8:25 pm

            But you are triggered bikeandfall…you know so much that isn’t so ! you are still laughable and you are a mental midget who thinks you are the overseer of all that is politically correct..hahahahahaha! Trump is the president until 2024 , Keep on crying about it as he makes America great again even for your limited capacity brainwashed little mind . Or get on the train and look at all the promises kept. But you can’t do that because you just happen to be one of those compulsive complainers who just loves to hear yourself complain.. bikeandfail..always on the rag..what a bi%^h! FROG YOU!

          • bikeandfish January 17, 2018 at 9:03 pm

            Oh, do tell, what is a B#$!h Frog? That is the most tortured of alleged insults I have heard in a while.

            I do think I’m beginning to hone in on your age. Haven’t heard anyone younger than 60 use that lame phrase in a decade or more. Your use of antiquated insults is telling.

          • John January 17, 2018 at 9:30 pm

            biteandfool..It means you are a female dog and you should go lick your wounds you crybaby libtard…you suffer from delusional psychosis.. you actually think you’re intelligent, nothing could be further from the truth ! You have been sucked in by cultural marxism and can only recite the fictions you are told are facts, That’s why you liberals are failing so badly.. and you can’t handle it..waaah waaaah waaaah ! I heard you still use training wheels and a training bra.How’s that drool cup treating you ?.hahahaha.. reality never seems to fit with any of your long winded circle jerks,..maxine waters talks more sense than you..hahahaha~

          • dons8120 January 18, 2018 at 8:52 am

            I think we are getting under John’s skin. Not sure if he is in his 60’s, I was thinking mid 40’s. He seems like someone from the 40 year old virgin movie who either still lives with mother or in a single apartment with his childhood toys as decoration in his living room. I can’t see how anyone but a mother could love someone with so much hate and anger. Lets just hope he doesn’t breed any angry little spawns of himself, I think one in our community is enough. Until next time John (the Sean Hannity wannabe) MAGA! or “Sieg Heil” whatever you Trump supporters say.

          • bikeandfish January 18, 2018 at 10:47 am

            My memory could be wrong but I think he mentioned he owned a company for 30+ years and talks about his kids business practice now. I think he’s at least 60 given his odd insults (“on the rag”) and rather obtuse use of rightwing insults.

            Its a guess though. Either way the guy has no substantive ideas to share nor displays any real critical thinking skills. I think beneath his crusty exterior those traits may exist alongside a set of values that isn’t solely about hate but its up to him to prove that at some point.

            I think its fair to assume he doesn’t behave so childishly offline and has a community that cares about him. But that is a difference between him and I; I don’t assume the worst of him because of how his acts here. This is likely just some odd outlet for a guy watching the world change in a way he has no control over.

  • Craig January 17, 2018 at 11:37 am

    Too often he is an ass, especially on Twitter. However, he may be the only President who not only made sincere, truthful promises during the campaign, but also is keeping those promises.

    I am appalled with those who wish he will fail, showing their disappointment and anger at the success of tax relief. I am also appalled those same people actively plot against him.

    This group cares about his destruction, hoping to gain power and wealth, while happily ignoring the voters, no concern with improving their lives.

    Also bought so
    E of Trump’s behavior is best described, the people actively campaigning against our nation are the real children.

  • Craig January 17, 2018 at 11:37 am

    Sorry about last paragraph mess.

  • commonsense January 18, 2018 at 7:19 am

    Race is not at all the issue in … countries. Many predominantly black countries are well run.
    The Dominican Republic shares the island of Hispaniola with Haiti and is the epitome of civility and cleanliness with the same racial profile. It’s the culture of crime and poverty caused by bad government that sets Haiti apart, perhaps the French influence of extreme socialism contributed.

    Same is true in the African … countries which have fallen prey to corruption. It’s not the color of skin but the lifestyle they have chosen. Many African countries are mixed race so don’t paint Africa as all black. Morocco, Lybia and Egypt have few blacks.

    Ed. ellipses.

    • bikeandfish January 18, 2018 at 8:58 am

      Who said the continent of Africa is all black? I know I intentionally used the phrase “people of color” which is a catch all used for individuals historically not considered white in the US.

      Even your gross generalizations are more nuanced than Trump’s.

      Nice doubling down on his language and getting edited. Like I said to LBA, his supporters are at a crossroads. At some point y’all will need to challenge him to do better or you will become complicit in his blatant racism.

      • ladybugavenger January 18, 2018 at 11:23 am

        He is arrogant, funny, blunt/abrasive, tough, but not a racist. I wasn’t blinded by the Obama, everyone get on government assistance agenda. You gotta admit that companies are investing in America and Americans since he became President.

        • bikeandfish January 18, 2018 at 12:50 pm

          Out of curiosity can you show me a statement from Obama that he encouraged more people to become dependent on government assistance? I mean if you are going to constantly justify Trump’s hideous statements than wouldn’t it require you to be consistent and do the same for Obama?

          Per investment…its a mixed bag. The economy seems to continue to improve but that has been a trend since the 2nd year of Obama’s tenure. I’ve seen evidence of returning investment this last year but its also not the simple narrative they claim. Take Carrier and all of Trump’s emphatic statements in December 2016. Well, its a year later now and those jobs he claimed to have saved have slowly disappeared. At least 600 of the 1000+ jobs they promised to keep with the tax incentives Trump threw their way have been lost. That’s not exactly a great outcome a year later.

          I’ll commend Trump’s successes but it will be based on actual outcomes not the Administrations’ or corporate rhetoric. And the content and details of the truth are normally much less optimistic than executive statements. In fact, you know this given your recent comment about your own income difficulties at work. So why not hold your own candidate accountable to a healthy skepticism?

          • ladybugavenger January 18, 2018 at 7:58 pm

            It was actions. I saw it happening. If you were blind to it, I can’t help you.

            I Will say that my 401k I’ve had for 90 days has more capital gain than my last 401k I had for a year in 2015. It’s not much, I invest 3%, my employer invest 3%, but I’m impressed by the gain in 90 days.

            As far as wages, I’m not part of the 1%. Winning the lottery is by back up plan ? it’s my only plan, actually haha. As you know, my faith is not in government, and its not even in Trump. I just like,the guy and its sad anyone has to have a mass amount of people wanting someone to fail and for people to be disappointed he passed a cognitive test. That’s just sick.

        • bikeandfish January 18, 2018 at 12:51 pm

          Much of the world and country fundamentally disagrees on your conclusions about Trump’s racism.

          • ladybugavenger January 18, 2018 at 7:59 pm

            Of course they do, I’ve never been one to conform to the masses for the sake of fitting in

          • bikeandfish January 18, 2018 at 10:29 pm

            Its not about conformity. Its about recognizing when certain values have been trespassed on, no matter the affiliation of the offender. For 18 months we’ve seen more than enough evidence of Trump’s racism and targeting of anybody not white (Muslims, Mexicans, now Haitians and citizens of Africa, etc, etc, etc). This isn’t new or shocking. Its not partisan.

            And you must be kidding about no one complaining about Obama for fear of racism. Our current President launched one of the most racist smear campaigns in recent history against Obama, ie the birther movement. And the right constantly ran anti-Obama rhetoric completely comparable to what you call a “hate trump movement”.

          • John January 19, 2018 at 5:58 pm

            and yet you have not presented one whiff of evidence that Trump is racist ! Where is it? Trump financed a trip for eye surgeries in Haiti long before being a candidate ! I used NBC because you trust that fake news rag because all you ever believe is fake news. Trump was given the Ellis Island Award in 1989 for helping conditions of inner city black youths,with Muhammad Ali and Rosa Parks. Look it up leftard ! Back in 1998 and 1999, Trump worked with Jackson’s Rainbow/PUSH coalition to help offer a way to get African Americans into corporate America and improve their communities through building projects and jobs. Jackson praised Trump’s savvy business aplomb not once, but twice. Look it up narrow ninded freak ! The black unemployment rate has fallen by a full percentage point in the last year, black labor force participation is up and the number of black Americans with a job has risen by 600,000 from last year. Preliminary data show black wages and incomes are up since the election.

            The rate of job growth per month for blacks under Trump has so far been 40 percent higher than the monthly average under ‎Obama. Trump has averaged nearly 30,000 new black jobs per month. That’s especially remarkable because Obama was elected when employment was way down ! So take your racist attitude and your pitiful Trump Derangement Syndome, Because you, my diaper wearing friend are a mis-informed liberal (as all of you are) and also the real racists. why do you continue to use the liberal talking point of the week you pompous blowhard snowflake. You are a long winded clueless fool !

        • John January 18, 2018 at 9:30 pm

          Ladybug, bikeandfish can not provide a shred of evidence that Trump is a racist. Bikeandfish just says that because that’s the anti-Trump complaint of the week. Bikeandfish has consumed so much of the MSM Kool aid she will never recover from the brain damage. So, all we can do is continue to make fun of the blowhard…enjoy ! I do ! hahahahaha!

          • bikeandfish January 19, 2018 at 10:13 am

            Settlement with DOJ for racial discrimination at properties; believes in “total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the country”, well, except maybe the “Scottish Muslims”; “you live in poverty, your schools are no good, you have no jobs” as an appeal to African Americans to vote for him (they didn’t, imagine that); spent years pushing Obama birtherism; supported stop and frisk, a racist policy that was an utter failure at crime prevention; “African Americans and Hispanics are living in hell” during debate; omits Jews from Holocaust Remembrance announcement; “sh+&[email protected]#e countries” all the while writing off the entire continent of Africa.

            Those are a selection of his juicier ones but there are plenty more. His racism has been public record for decades.

          • John January 19, 2018 at 10:39 am

            bikeandfish.. all not trrue.. where’s the proof.. you got none you kool-aid drinking brainwashed fool! hahahahahahahahaha! just more false libtard talking points.. all lies..WHERE”S THE BEEF CRAP FOR BRAINS?

          • dons8120 January 19, 2018 at 11:29 am

            Racism is simply the belief that race is an inherent and determining factor in a person’s or a people’s character and capabilities, rendering some inferior and others superior. These beliefs are racial prejudices. By making the statements Trump has regarding Haiti and African countries, this proves that Trump is a racist. There is no denying that he is a racist. You don’t have to wear a white hood to be a racist. You can yell all you want defending Trump, but that doesn’t change a thing. We can argue all we want on STGnews.com and it doesn’t change facts. We can only change things with our vote and come this November one way or the other we will see what the American citizens think, and you and Fox news can’t stop it. Utah may not elect a democrat, but you can pretty much guarantee that many other states will turn against Trump and his followers. Enjoy living in your narrow minded world because progress will always continue.

          • John January 19, 2018 at 12:03 pm

            delusional donny…where’s the proof?.. your libtard talking points have not stood up to scrutiny before and they will not stand up now.. Again.. where’s the TANGIBLE PROOF ?

          • bikeandfish January 19, 2018 at 12:28 pm

            John, no one here believes you care about proof. All of the evidence I have provided is verifiable in the public record, from the quotes and policy to legal settlements.

            But you have never exhibited a care or value for truth. The principle thing you exhibit here is antagonism and hate. The reason I even took the time to reply is I think LBA has sincere values like alot of Trump supporters. Maybe you do too but you provide no reason for me to think you do. As you constantly state, we have Trump for 3 more years so maybe his value oriented supporters can sway him to do better than this “circus”.

          • John January 19, 2018 at 12:55 pm

            Bikeand fish, there is far more proof of you and delusional donny being loudmouthed narrow minded liberal meat puppets than there is of Donald Trump being a racist.. I do care to see that verifiable proof.. here is some from the MSM that blows up your stupid racist theory.. https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/rand-paul-says-it-s-unfair-call-trump-racist-n837601

          • bikeandfish January 19, 2018 at 2:55 pm

            You do realize you just linked an article that includes a person calling his comments about Haiti and Africa “racists”, right? I sincerely recommend improving your media literacy and understanding of logic.

            None of what you have linked actually undermines the evidence I linked. Scream insults all you want but it doesn’t change the facts I’ve highlighted. And after 4 plus years of a consistent trend of him saying racists things and forwarding racist policy (or candidates that do) then its fair to conclude his values are either racist or that he is willing to use racist strategy to forward his goals, which is in itself racist.

            And nothing you do convinces me that you actually care about verified public record, aka fact. Its fair to conclude your statement about valuing evidence is disingenuous until you show a willingness to prioritize fact over your ideology. Heck, that’s not even about you calling him a racist but it does include accepting his track record of statements that are true and verifiable. It completely undermines your credibility to so constantly deny those realities. Its nonsensical to the extreme.

  • John January 18, 2018 at 3:23 pm

    What a bunch of crybaby misinformed liberal losers…

  • bikeandfish January 19, 2018 at 10:54 pm

    Hey John,

    Congrats on actually including some ideas that can researched, though you got some of it wrong with enough misinformation that points to your sources:

    1) Trump won the Ellis Island Award in 1986, not 1989 as you cite. There is no specific reason given for Trump’s nomination beyond the generic criteria of the award itself. The reason you highlight is originally from”fake news” about it being award with the NAACP, which it wasn’t. NAACP has denied any award to Trump. You may want to research the award that year as it was actually a response to naturalized citizens, ie immigrants, getting awards from the government. Pretty ironic and interesting story given our context.

    2) I have no reason to distrust Rand Paul’s claims. Its completely usual for the rich or corporate donors to fund such endeavors.

    3) Nothing Trump has done is directly related to the employment of people of color so it has no relationship to his concepts of race.

    You reveal alot about your understanding of racism. People who harbor racists ideas aren’t the simple caricatures folks like you assume. Not everyone is a white supremacist like NickDanger here. Racists, especially the rich ones using donates for tax write offs, often perform their racism in contradictory ways. Heck, they often “have black friends” and can’t imagine themselves as racists. Nonetheless, they believe race is a determining factor in a person’s values or actions. Trump does that. And I have highlighted explicit examples. Your refusal to recognize that evidence is about your own bias and inability to think logically, not the merit of the evidence. If you learn anything from this individual encounter it hopefully resembles the fact that I can research and think critically for myself especially when you forward regurgitated nonsense.

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