Mormon leader reaffirms faith’s opposition to gay marriage

People attend the morning session of the two-day Mormon church conference Saturday, Sept. 30, 2017, in Salt Lake City | AP Photo by Rick Bowmer, St. George News

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — A top Mormon leader reaffirmed the religion’s opposition to same-sex marriage on Saturday during a church conference — and reminded followers watching around the world that children should be raised in families led by a married man and woman no matter what becomes the norm in a “declining world.”

Dallin H. Oaks, member of a top governing body called the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints speak during the morning session of the two-day Mormon church conference Saturday, Sept. 30, 2017, in Salt Lake City | AP Photo by Rick Bowmer, St. George News

The speech by Dallin H. Oaks, a member of a top governing body called the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, followed a push in recent years by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to uphold theological opposition to gay marriage amid widespread social acceptance while trying to foster an empathetic stance toward LGBT people.

The Mormon church is one of many conservative faith groups navigating the challenges that arise from trying to strike the right balance.

“We have witnessed a rapid and increasing public acceptance of cohabitation without marriage and same-sex marriage. The corresponding media advocacy, education, and even occupational requirements pose difficult challenges for Latter-day Saints,” Oaks said. “We must try to balance the competing demands of following the gospel law in our personal lives and teachings even as we seek to show love for all.”

Oaks acknowledged that this belief can put Mormons at odds with family and friends and doesn’t match current laws, including the recent legalization of gay marriage in the United States. But he told members of the nearly 16-million member faith watching around the world that the religion’s 1995 document detailing the doctrine — “The Family: A Proclamation to the World” — isn’t’ a policy statement that will be changed.

He lamented that more children in the United States are raised in families led by unmarried mothers.

“Even as we must live with the marriage laws and other traditions of a declining world, those who strive for exaltation must make personal choices in family life according to the Lord’s way whenever that differs from the world’s way,” Oaks said.

After the Utah-based Mormon church received backlash in 2008 for helping lead the fight for California’s Proposition 8 constitutional ban on gay marriage, religious leaders spent several years carefully developing a more empathetic LGBT tone.

Russell M. Nelson, president of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints looks on before the start of the morning session of the two-day Mormon church conference Saturday, Sept. 30, 2017, in Salt Lake City | AP Photo by Rick Bowmer, St. George News

That was interrupted in 2015 when the church adopted new rules banning children living with gay parents from being baptized until age 18 and clarifying that people in same-sex relationships are apostates. That policy drew harsh criticism from gay church members and their supporters, who considered it a major setback from recent progress.

A year ago, church leaders updated a website created in 2012 to let members know that that attraction to people of the same sex is not a sin or a measure of their faithfulness and may never go away. But the church reminded members that having gay sex violates fundamental doctrinal beliefs that will not change.

Brittany Krallis Stapf, a lifelong Mormon who lives near Spokane, Washington, with her husband and sons, was among church members who were disappointed in Oaks’ speech. In a phone interview, Krallis, 36, said she’s teaching her sons, ages 12 and 9, to be inclusive and loving to everyone and stick up for LGBT members.

“My heart was pounding. It is very difficult to hear an apostle give a speech you feel contradicts the message you’re trying to teach your children,” Krallis said.

She said she knows many Mormons from her generation who share her hope that church leaders will eventually soften on the issue.

“Social change comes first,” Krallis said. “At times, it’s followed in the church.”

The twice-yearly conference is proceeding without church President Thomas S. Monson, 90, who is dealing with ailing health. It’s the first time in more than a half century that Monson hasn’t spoken at the conferences. Before becoming church president in 2008, he served on the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles starting in 1963.

Monson has scaled back conference participation in recent years, and in May, church officials said that he was no longer going regularly to meetings at church offices because of limitations related to his age.

Church presidents serve until they die.

Monson is the first church president since 1994 not to attend and make at least one speech. But prior to that, it was fairly common for presidents to miss conferences toward the end of their lives.

President Dieter F. Uchtdorf, second counselor in the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints speaks during the morning session of the two-day Mormon church conference Saturday, Sept. 30, 2017, in Salt Lake City | AP Photo by Rick Bowmer, St. George News

Dieter F. Uchtdorf, one of Monson’s top two counselors, said Monson was watching from his home. “President Monson, we love you very much,” Uchtdorf said.

Also missing will be Robert D. Hales, 85, a top leader who was hospitalized in recent days.

Church leaders use the conference to deliver spiritual guidance to members and sometimes announce church news.

Quentin L. Cook, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve, briefly denounced racism during a speech on the importance of humility. Cook reminded members that the religion’s signature scripture, the Book of Mormon, declares that “we all are alike unto God” and said anyone who claims superiority based on race, sex, language or economic class is morally wrong and doesn’t understand God’s purpose for his followers. [See Ed. Note]

Cook’s message echoed a church statement delivered in August condemning white supremacist attitudes as “morally wrong and sinful” after a protest over a Confederate War monument in Charlottesville, Virginia, descended into deadly violence.

The religion still deals with questions about their views on race, in part because the faith banned men of African descent from the lay clergy until 1978. The church now disavows the theories of the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse, which led to the ban.

Mormon leaders also cautioned about the pitfalls of social media, where the carefully crafted images of an altered reality lead people to end up envious and discouraged and in constant search of more followers and likes.

Jeffrey R. Holland, a member the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, warned members not to let the pursuit of Christ-like perfection lead to ulcers, bulimia, depression or lowered self-esteem.

“Let’s strive for steady improvement without obsessing over what behavioral scientists call ‘toxic perfectionism,’ ” Holland said.

Written by BRADY McCOMBS, Associated Press

Ed. Note: An earlier version of this story reported erroneously that Quentin L. Cook, a member of the Mormon church’s Quorum of the Twelve, said “we are all unlike unto God.”

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Email: news@stgnews.com

Twitter: @STGnews

Copyright 2017 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

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64 Comments

  • bikeandfish October 1, 2017 at 9:58 am

    That is predictable as the church has never tried to hide its sex and gender based discrimination.

    • John October 1, 2017 at 10:46 am

      Not discrimination. You can be as gay as you want to be. You can not force somebody to accept you. Sorry the drama queens lose again !

      • bikeandfish October 1, 2017 at 11:24 am

        Discrimination: noun: the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

        Prejudicial: adjective: harmful to someone or something; detrimental.

        Denying marriage to gay and lesbian couples and denying baptism to children of such couples until they are 18 most definitely can be described as detrimental treatment of different categories of people on the grounds of sex/gender. Its clear as day. Churches have the legal right to do so but that doesn’t change the fact its discrimination.

        Failed attempt at changing definitions again.

        • John October 1, 2017 at 12:09 pm

          you can be a gay as you want to be.. LDS is not saying you can’t be gay. they are saying they don’t have to accept it. or like you. It’s their right.. sorry but
          you don’t have a bike to sit on in this one fishy person. haha!

          • bikeandfish October 1, 2017 at 2:59 pm

            Ugh, we agree its their right, John. Please actually read my posts before commenting in your responses are nonsensical. That doesn’t change the fact that the church is discriminating against homosexual couples and their kids. You may not like the term but its accurate in every way to its definition.

          • John October 1, 2017 at 4:02 pm

            They are not discriminating against anybody..the LDS does not do gay marriages any more than United Negro College Fund gives scholarships to white people…Why don’t you go try to get a Kosher Deli to serve bacon ? Some things are sacred to some people and marriage is sacred to the LDS..besides if you are gay are you really a Mormon?

          • bikeandfish October 1, 2017 at 4:21 pm

            I love how you try to get others to ignore definitions as if they’ll go along with it. The church is denying marriage and baptism to homosexuals that they provide to heterosexuals and their children. Their treatment of people, ie access to marriage and baptism, is based upon gender and sex and is prejudicial, ie detrimental to the couples and kids. Trying to deny that accuracy is being intellectually dishonest.

            If you are uncomfortable with such an accurate description than it might be there is dissonance within your values. Might be worth considering why that is.

        • desertgirl October 1, 2017 at 1:15 pm

          If you don’t believe in the teachings of a religion don’t become a member and don’t go work for them. Really simple. bikeandfish, you are typical of the progressive movement; phony concern for humans as you have no respect for those you don’t agree with. People like you would fit in well in Cuba, China, or regressive Russia. In those places you don’t have to concern yourself with people having freedom of religion, thought; you can enjoy a robotic cold society where you and other know-it-alls can live on standby by waiting for a government body of people to tell how to think, what to feel, and what you should do on a day to day basis. Really think you should go. Your liberal ilk have screwed up much of the planet, you don’t get to have the United States without a good fight from the rest of us.

          • bikeandfish October 1, 2017 at 3:09 pm

            First, I’m not trying to become LDS. I don’t believe in their teachings.

            Second, I respect religious liberty. I’m not asking to infringe on the church’s right to practice. But religious liberty does not provide freedom from criticism. The church makes its preachings public and it influences fellow citizens so I spend time learning and critiquing its policy. And in this case, they are discriminating against homosexual members and their kids.

            Three, the take it or leave approach to Americanism you are pushing is rather ironic. You condemn others for criticizing a church’s public policy and act like a victim, you are not, then try to say we don’t belong in this country. You can’t have it both ways. Your statement is the opposite of liberty.

            And not every member of the LDS faith comes to it voluntarily. By the time many become confident in their sexuality they have been raised in the church for a decade or two by their parents. The church encourages that approach. So having homosexual members is an inherent consequence of church policy. Its rather ironic if its consequences weren’t so inhumane.

          • bikeandfish October 1, 2017 at 3:50 pm

            As a comparison, it took pressure from members and outsiders to change the centuries old ban black men from joining the priesthood. The also justified and resisted these calls for change for decades despite the “drama” of civil rights advocates and vocal cries from members. It wasn’t infringement on religious liberty that causes the change but persistent work to end the discrimination.

            Would you ask those folks to shut up and move to another country? Would you look a black man in the eyes and tell them they had no right to critique the church’s discriminatory policies because they had the “mark of Cain”?

            Time move forward but some things stay the same.

        • John October 1, 2017 at 4:19 pm

          Fine..if you are not Mormon and not trying to become Mormon what gives you the right to tell them how to run their church? Are you a gay Mormon who wants to come out of the closet? You have no right whatsoever to tell them who to accept and who they should marry. Want to change it? Become one of the Twelve and then you can try to change it.

          • bikeandfish October 1, 2017 at 6:21 pm

            My free speech gives me a right to criticize the church;. The Church gets to decide when to change but they don’t exist in a vacuum nor have any freedom from public pressure. That is the beauty of speech.

            Alot more ways than being the leadership to facilitate change.

          • John October 1, 2017 at 6:45 pm

            not in the LDS…drama queens like you are quite entertaining

          • bikeandfish October 1, 2017 at 6:58 pm

            You might want to come up with better insults if that is the direction you choose to go. Drama queen, snowflake, etc just don’t provoke or even accurately reflect anything other than your own hate and prejudice. But the name calling isn’t very Christian and I find that utterly ironic and uncivil (Mero’s thesis fall’s flat).

          • John October 1, 2017 at 9:42 pm

            bike..to put it simply..you are wrong and mind your own business,,if you don’t like the LDS go start your own church..liberal drama queen..the name fits and you wear it well..get some new coloring books..and since you are not trying to be Mormon I think you are just being a crybaby on top of everything else I think of you..Good night and go feed your unicorns

          • bikeandfish October 1, 2017 at 10:05 pm

            The fun part is the protections provided to your church are provided to me. I get to persistently challenge your church’s practices. Get use to hearing about it as the LDS Church’s homophobia and sexual discrimination is front and center across the state and nation.

  • ladybugavenger October 1, 2017 at 10:07 am

    There should be no compromising on this issue. A marriage is between a man and a woman.

    This shouldn’t even be a struggle for believers in Jesus. But the Mormons always need a conference to tell the followers what to believe. It’s a non issue. Pray for our nation.

  • ladybugavenger October 1, 2017 at 10:23 am

    b&f I’ve seen you quote scriptures of the Bible. You’re not even a believer. So, as I’ve said before it’s used a weapon against believers. That’s something Satan would do.

    • bikeandfish October 1, 2017 at 11:29 am

      Funny. So using scriptures to hold people accountable to the dialog, lessons and spirit of Jesus is the work of Satan? I sleep with an annotated copy of the Bible on my night stand as a reminder of its many lessons. I am agnostic but recognize it as a valuable text in how to live and treat others. I haven’t actually brought spiritual excerpts into the conversation until individuals choose to do so themselves. And when they are being hypocritical to those texts I highlight it with the actual scripture.

      • ladybugavenger October 1, 2017 at 3:57 pm

        What does sleeping with the Bible have to do with anything? Oh! It doesn’t.

        • ladybugavenger October 1, 2017 at 4:01 pm

          You should probably read it and believe it. And then next time I ask you, where are going? You’ll say, I’m going to heaven Ladybug, thank God for Jesus!

          • bikeandfish October 1, 2017 at 4:15 pm

            Unlikely. I don’t believe in the concept of heaven or hell. I do believe in autumn colors and hikes.

            Having it in proximity is a sign of how I value it, nothing else.

          • ladybugavenger October 1, 2017 at 6:09 pm

            you Sleep with the Bible on your nightstand, you use scriptures from the Bible to call people hypocrites, and you don’t believe the Bible.
            My work here is done.

          • bikeandfish October 1, 2017 at 6:55 pm

            I fact check and hold people accountable to the spirit and lessons of the scripture people personally cite. Its an ancient text that is readily checked for accuracy. I don’t cite it otherwise. I highlight hypocritical statements by Christians who to cite the Bible they claim to adhere to but comment inconsistent with the scriptures they use. Don’t cite anything unless you are willing for people to fact check it and hold you accountable to its actual content.

            I “believe” there is value to the teachings of Jesus and try to apply those. I am not Christian and have been honest about that. Christians have made it clear the Bible is the people’s text and not just the property of Christians. If they didn’t want it to be in the public domain then Christians should not have crammed it down our throats for centuries.

          • ladybugavenger October 1, 2017 at 8:24 pm

            the devil fact checks the Bible too. And uses it to call people hypocrites.
            (which in all fairness- we are all hypocrites) the difference is: I’d rather be a hypocrite with Jesus. Than a hypocrite with satan.

            All fall short of the glory of God. If your not for Jesus then you are against him…… You can fact check that.

          • ladybugavenger October 1, 2017 at 8:33 pm

            I have not read the Bible from beginning to end. I can’t even pronounce most of the names but what I have done is lived through some things that are straight from the Bible. I’ve seen the devil. And I’ve experienced the glory of God, forgiveness, mercy. I’ve seen the dark and now I know the light.

            So, my belief does not come from the Bible. Oh no my friend, my belief comes from being hated on, from tragedy and from confusion, and from darkness. Thank you Jesus!!!

  • ladybugavenger October 1, 2017 at 10:28 am

    You’re being used by Satan. And you don’t win. Satan is a liar. Choose Jesus.

    There are no atheist:
    King James Bible
    Romans 14:11

    “For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.”

    One day, everyone will believe it’s just not everyone will go to heaven.

    Where are going b&f?

    • bikeandfish October 1, 2017 at 11:30 am

      Today I am going on a hike with my dogs. Later this week I hope to go grocery shopping and maybe see some of autumn colors on the mountain.

  • Bob October 1, 2017 at 5:31 pm

    A marriage is a civil union, the church does not own marriage. Not allowing gay marriage is discrimination. Most gay people won’t join the Mormon cult, but we have to protect the poor people who are raised in the church and decide later in life they want a same sex relationship. The church is making families choose between their kids and their church. And all of this is happening because of a book that is believable as the book of Greek mythology. Don’t drink the Kool aid people.

    • John October 1, 2017 at 6:34 pm

      The Mormons don’t perform GAY marriage. You knew that before this article. If you want one don’t go there! They are not telling anybody not to get a gay marriage. You simply are not going to get one there. Should Catholics scream discrimination because the LDS won’t perform a Catholic service? Should a criminal scream discrimination after being found guilty and sent to jail? Find a judge who will do it for you, but the Drama Queens always need no make a scene. You are a fool if you think it’s discrimination..It’s religious freedom and that’s protected by the Constitution. You can flaunt your gayness all over the place , nobody will tell me what to accept and not accept. the same goes for ALL churches. Put on your big girl panties and deal with it !

      • Bob October 1, 2017 at 6:58 pm

        It’s not about the Mormon church marrying people, it’s about the church discriminating against members who are gay. Like not letting children of a gay couple participate in church. Or the church causing families to disown their gay children. You can hate gays all you like but don’t make a person choose between their faith and their gay children.

        https://www.google.com/amp/fox13now.com/2017/06/21/utah-teen-speaks-after-video-of-her-testimony-on-being-mormon-and-gay-goes-viral/amp/.

        • John October 1, 2017 at 7:28 pm

          pull up your big girl panties and deal with it..LDS does not do gay marriage,, if you want to be married in the church you have to renounce your gayness and get right with the church and marry somebody of the opposite sex. If you are gay , you are not in good standing with the LDS church..that’s the way it is..you want a gay marriage go find a judge to do it for you. The church is not going to bless your sin! In the church Marriage is between a man and a woman..no other combination works in their definition.. and if a church does not approve of your lifestyle go find another church..You DRAMA QUEENS are just too much..get a life !

          • bikeandfish October 1, 2017 at 7:38 pm

            Do you still also think that black men can’t serve in the priesthood? If not, then you admit the policy of the church can change.

            People will continue to hold the church to higher standards that do not include discrimination based on sexual discrimination. That includes members of the church who are in “good standing”. If they choose not to change then they will just have to deal with the criticisms and they’ll be persistent and relentless.

            We do have lives, which includes standing up for equal treatment of our fellow citizens we care about.

          • John October 1, 2017 at 8:11 pm

            keep making an issue where there isn’t one..The Mormon church will never accept gay marriage..get over it and go find a church for your kind…hahahaha!! the first church of the liberal drama queens..

          • Bob October 1, 2017 at 8:21 pm

            Sins are made up by the church, laws are real! Let’s follow the law, not some made up story out of a book with stories no one can prove. Especially the book of Mormon which was made up by a man who wanted to sleep with multiple women including other men’s wives. This sounds so much more Christ like.

          • John October 1, 2017 at 9:05 pm

            BOB, go start your own church and do whatever you like. It’s your right.! Quit crying about somebody else’s club because you can’t get in..start your own ..you can’t run around tearing at somebody else’s rules just because they exclude you. Too bad you liberals never have an original thought of your own and have to make a scene over something that is none of your damn business..I have one question for you Bob, Since you are a liberal, are you tired of losing yet? Give it up. get a life, and quit complaining and start your own church ..you people are becoming a laughing stock

          • ladybugavenger October 1, 2017 at 9:24 pm

            Bob, I really wish you would change your name. But just know when I say Bob to “comments” it’s because he use to be Bob. Don’t let that confuse you.

            I have one thing to say to you and that is: at least you are firm on your beliefs. It took me, I don’t know, it felt like months, to figure out where b&f stood. But, here you both are and you both stand together. I thought you were commentor theone for a moment, but you didn’t use the word delusional lol

  • ladybugavenger October 1, 2017 at 9:36 pm

    One more thing b&f. You fact check the Bible and use scriptures to hold people that believe in Jesus accountable to a comment they made. You use the internet to fact check and hold people accountable to a comment they write.

    #1- you don’t believe the Bible
    #2- you believe the facts on the web site you use to fact check

    Using the Bible to fact check and you don’t even believe the fact you are reading is hypocritical and sorcery.

    Stick to snopes.com

    • bikeandfish October 1, 2017 at 9:44 pm

      Well, that was nonsensical.

      Using the internet is no different than using the library. Both have high and low quality sources. It takes a certain type of literacy to distinguish them which my education helped.

      On a previous note….Bob and I agree on critiquing the church for its discrimination of homosexuals and their kids but I don’t agree with his other name calling and insults.

      • ladybugavenger October 1, 2017 at 10:11 pm

        You’re too much. I must have hit pretty close to the mark to confuse you.

        I’ll make it simple. When you use the Bible against people that believe in Jesus, it is sorcery.

        When you hold people accountable using something you don’t believe in, it is hypocracy.

        You can’t hold someone accountable for something that you, yourself, do not believe in.

        Stay away from using the Bible against people.

        Stick to snopes.com

        • ladybugavenger October 1, 2017 at 10:22 pm

          The Bible is the word of God. You don’t believe in God, or heaven, or hell. Using scriptures from the word of God is being a hypocrite.

          You are better off to not quote scriptures, and stay away from using them against people that believe in God.

          You’re welcome

          • bikeandfish October 2, 2017 at 12:35 pm

            So let me get this right. I don’t insult people with names, resort to personal attacks but do comment about respecting religious liberty (constantly say they have a right to practice), comment about their post’s inconsistency with their own voluntarily stated values and that means I am “confused”, “narrow-minded” and “baffle people with BS”. But you sit there are call names, compare those who disagree to Satan and John spouts hateful ideology and insults constantly that is just fine and loving?

            That is beyond irony. Here’s the thing, I’m not narrow-minded. I tolerate the existence of other views and respect the legal right of churches. But that right never included the privilege of being safe from public criticism when it involves discrimination. It never guaranteed comfort in expressing prejudiced views. In fact, the historical figures who wrote the first Ammendment explicitly talked about its importance in critiquing those in power who behave poorly. Speech was to be used critique issues like this.

            Time and time again, LBA, you weaponize Christianity against those who don’t follow the faith but consider it off limits to to hold Christians accountable to the book they cite. The passage of Matthew 23 John cited ironically makes it clear Jesus would disagree with that approach. He expected better from his followers.

        • bikeandfish October 1, 2017 at 10:59 pm

          You and John sure like to make up definitions.

          Hypocrisy: noun: the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one’s own behavior does not conform; pretense.

          Hypocrisy is inconsistency with personal, stated beliefs not those of others. The definition you use is incorrect and fabricated.

          If Christians didn’t want others to use the Bible then they should have never pushed onto citizens of the world for centuries. Its fair game now. And those that claim to be followers of Christianity but don’t behave on this forum in a way that conforms with the Bible are being hypocritical by definition. When you voluntarily provide information as citations and rational then you are held to those standards.

          • ladybugavenger October 2, 2017 at 7:13 am

            Bike and fish- you’re better off just loving people. Even people that you don’t agree with, need love.

            Just because you are narrow minded and do not understand the hypocrisy in yourself does not mean it is not there.

            This calling people out on a word. This fact checking every word of a definition, is an endless battle.

            It’s as if, you are a god of your own universe. That you here to hold everyone accountable because you are righteous.

            You are actually a very confused individual that baffles people with bs.

        • bikeandfish October 1, 2017 at 11:06 pm

          The notion you can’t hold people accountable to their own stated beliefs is laughable and even inconsistent with the Bible. One doesn’t have to share beliefs to point out hypocrisy and the lack of accountability. Accountability, like integrity, is individualistic.

          Get use to be held accountable to scripture and the Bible. You and John brought it into the equation voluntarily. Plus, logically, if its truly the word of god, it doesn’t matter if the user is a believer as the word and spirit of it speaks for itself. It has a history and theology that is well documented.

  • comments October 1, 2017 at 9:44 pm

    Anyone got any good gay wedding cake jokes? lol

    • John October 1, 2017 at 9:54 pm

      yes jokes .bikeandfish and bob

    • ladybugavenger October 1, 2017 at 9:56 pm

      Hey it’s Bob, I don’t know I’ll have to ask Betty and Butch and see if they have any.

  • comments October 1, 2017 at 9:57 pm

    So they’re telling the mormons to use less facebook? Is that possible? Facebook is like mormon crack, sharing baby photos and telling the world what cute little stupid thing baby Joey or little Suzy did that day is the addiction. Detoxing a mormon off facebook I think would be harder than getting an addict off crack.

    lol

  • utahdiablo October 1, 2017 at 10:24 pm

    Well, the question now is “When will the Transgender Neutral Bathrooms in Zion” be put in? …What is the holdup….Caitlin Jenner could visit at any time and we won’t be ready…:>(

  • Sheri October 1, 2017 at 10:27 pm

    I’m sitting back and reading these comments… very entertaining. I keep seeing members freaking out about how Mormons don’t do gay marriage.. yeah, ok.. you realize that isn’t the issue that pretty much everyone is pissed about right?!! Non cult members and gay cult members and children of gay cult members are pissed about the blatant discrimination of the children of gay members of the LDS faith. Why are they paying for the “sins” of their parents??
    I really would like a explanation for this genius rule.

    • John October 1, 2017 at 11:30 pm

      oh yes it is…if you have nothing to do with LDS,,IT’S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS..IT IS THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO PRACTICE THEIR RELIGION..You are not in the club so quit crying about the rules. waaah waaah waaah..go start your own church with rules that you like..bunch of liberal crybaby busy bodies..you people are giving liberalism a bad name,, hahahaha! such stupidity out of the self important mind controlled liberal meat puppets

      • Bob October 2, 2017 at 9:37 am

        John you are so detached from reality that I think you need to see your doctor. It’s a good thing that the LDS church is only about 1% of the Christian community. Keep hiding in your magical underwear and pray to your false prophets. Pretty sure there is something in the bible about false idols. 🤔 I am done with you and your hatred.

        • John October 2, 2017 at 11:01 am

          Bob..the LDS and it’s practices are NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS . Quit being a busy body girly man and since you don’t like it why don’t you go protest the moslems because they throw people like you off roofs..go start your own church you worthless liberal ..If you have a problem with what they do..go somewhere else..start your own church . Go get a loan from the NAACP.. Join the girl scouts. but mostly shut your liberal pie hole you are the most uninformed person in this thread. go read the Constitution !
          Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…
          The Free Exercise Clause reserves the right of American citizens to accept any religious belief and engage in religious rituals. Free-exercise clauses of state constitutions which protected religious opinion, expression of opinion, and practice were all expressly protected by the Free Exercise Clause. The Clause protects not just religious beliefs but actions made on behalf of those beliefs. More importantly, the wording of state constitutions suggest that “free exercise envisions religiously compelled exemptions from at least some generally applicable laws. The Free Exercise Clause not only protects religious belief and expression; it also seems to allow for violation of laws, as long as that violation is made for religious reasons. In the terms of economic theory, the Free Exercise Clause promotes a free religious market by precluding taxation of religious activities by minority sects…..

          • Bob October 2, 2017 at 6:08 pm

            Why do you get so offended and say it’s none of my business? Are you scared of the truth? Worried that gay people will infect you and make you gay. The constitution protects the church from the government, not me. I can use my first amendment rights to protest the LDS church all I want. My opinions do not infringe upon anyone else’s rights, so I am not in violation of anything. I will continue to state my opinion on everything I find that does not fit with with my beliefs, just as you do. That is my right as an American citizen. I served my country for 7 years protecting that right for myself, my family, and sadly even people like you. Just go back and read my first comment and ask yourself why did I attack this person?, did he attack me? or am I just a grumpy old homophobic @$$.

        • John October 2, 2017 at 8:07 pm

          Bob, Thanks for your service. The LDS can do what it does, and yes you can complain. You should actually try complaining about something that really matters. The LDS does not do gay marriage and will never do gay marriage. If you want to get gay married go where they will do it for you. This is only a problem because the DRAMA QUEENS think they are correct in trying to make an institution perform an act that they do not do ! There is no discrimination here. They are very clear that they do not perform gay marriage. Don’t like it? Tough !
          ! am defending their Constitutional Right to practice their religion the way they choose to. I also served this country and have never been released from my oath of enlistment. You sir are bordering on violating their Constitutional rights> you have no connection to the Mormon Church , you are not considering becoming Mormon, so your only motive is to stir a turd where you actually have no business. They throw gays off rooftops in Saudi Arabia, why don’t you go protest that since gay rights are so important to you? Good night and happy coloring !

  • utahdiablo October 1, 2017 at 10:29 pm

    ….and you did catch the part of the speech that mentioned a marriage between a Man and his wives?…yeah I heard the plural….probably just a slip of the tongue, but funny huh?

  • John October 1, 2017 at 11:17 pm

    don’t like it, go start your own church…get a life…

    • bikeandfish October 1, 2017 at 11:41 pm

      It seems that is all you have left to say. We know its discrimination, no matter how much you try to fabricate new, bogus definitions. We know they have a right as a church to practice without government intervention. We know we have the right to pressure them despite your failed attempts to dissuade us otherwise.

      The reality is the LDS church has been on thin ice since their interference in Prop 8 and the public knows their game. Even politically savvy church leaders knew that it was poor strategy to openly engage in such divisive politics. They were wise enough to know when the church turns the spotlight outward into society then the public gets to shine their light deep into the church’s closet. And then the church has to either publicly own its skeletons or change policy. It empowered all of the backlash related to sex and gender we are seeing now which largely originated from members tired of being discriminated against.

      Don’t underestimate the power of public persuasion, even when it comes to changing church doctrine.

      I have hope that when the younger generations take their turn at the helm their tolerance and gender politics will wash away the sexual prejudice of this old guard. No one knows and only time will tell.

      • John October 2, 2017 at 1:58 pm

        I’m not fabricating a definition, I’m triggering a liberal.. you are putting your nose where it doesn’t belong. You are not a Mormon, neither am I , You are supposedly not a gay Mormon, you are not seeking marriage in the Mormon Church. You have actually no business with the LDS other than your incessant crying about the way they do things. Sorry but that is just putting your nose in somebody else’s business. They have the freedom to practice their religion just as you do. Unless you have been directly impacted by this decree, i suggest you shut your liberal pie hole and go complain about something that really matters. Sorry but that’s the way it is . And a lot of things other than this need fixing. Why not tackle the street drug problem in St George? Why not try telling Switchpoint how to best help people?.. Do something for real and get that pucker out of your panties..must be uncomfortable riding a bike.

        • bikeandfish October 2, 2017 at 4:35 pm

          If you are trying to trigger me you have failed. Calling attention to a civil problem is a rational choice.

          Best of luck learning to cope with criticism of such discrimination, its here to stay until the problem is solved.

          • John October 2, 2017 at 6:00 pm

            If you say so. your’e still a nosy busybody and nothing will change that. What the LDS does is nobody’s business but theirs ..you have no say and waah waah waaah! Cry all you want..!t’s not discrimination..It’s only a problem when you want them to do something you already knew they weren’t going to do..Drama queens making a scene.hahahaha!

  • ladybugavenger October 2, 2017 at 5:45 pm

    John 3:16

    “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

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