Dixie Springs residents in force protest ‘low income’ housing program

Dixie Springs residence show up in force, at Hurricane City Council. Hurricane City, Utah. August 21, 2014 | Photo by Reuben Wadsworth, St. George News

HURRICANE – Over the last several weeks, members of the Dixie Springs Development in Hurricane have grown concerned over plans of the Five County Association of Governments to build eight “low income” houses in their subdivision. The plan was presented at Thursday’s City Council meeting with a full house of residents and representatives expressing strong and diverse viewpoints.

Dixie Springs residence show up in force, at Hurricane City Council. Hurricane City, Utah. August 21, 2014 | Photo by T.S Romney St. George News
Dixie Springs residence show up in force, at Hurricane City Council. Hurricane City, Utah. August 21, 2014 | Photo by T.S Romney St. George News

Opening statement on behalf of Five County Association

Five County Association’s representative Doni Pack wrote a statement to be read by Jerry Allred to the council in her absence.

Pack’s statement began by describing the mutual self-help program administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture Rural Development division for 40 years. Families must pass a stringent application process, and only 1 in 21 applicants are approved. Applicants must prove stable income, responsible financial choices, and an established good credit rating.

Rural Development declares a builder, who then gets appraisals based on property value, and families choose a house plan that has been pre-approved and complies with covenants, conditions and restrictions, or CC&Rs, governing the development.

Hurricane City Mayor John Bramall said: “If someone is going to use this program, or income housing assistance, they have to comply with all the codes, covenants and regulations that are in the area they are going to build. They cannot build, or just throw something up.”

Each family assists the others in building the houses in the program until all are completed and in certified for occupancy.

“The families are required to build 65 percent of their house,” her statement said, “dedicating over 30 hours a week of their time and energy above and beyond regular employment and family responsibilities.”

The completed homes will appraise within the midrange of absolute values for Dixie Springs, Peck’s statement said, in line with those in standard listing services for realtors.

Bramall: The median level of house that is in Dixie Springs is a requirement for this program.

Pack’s statement: The new homes will not reduce property values.

The crowd in attendance: Laughter.

Pack’s statement: Long-term ownership is also increased with owner-builder housing due to physical and emotional investment required for a self-build. Long-term occupancy by workforce families contributes significantly to the stability and health of the local economy.

The term “low income housing” is often associated with unemployment, government handouts, trash and criminal behavior, Pack’s statement acknowledged; stereotypes, she said, that are seldom accurate or helpful.

“To believe that a person unknown to you fits in a certain stereotype based solely on rumor or ignorance is malice,” Pack said. If a family fit that abused stereotype they would not qualify for the program.

Allred then gave personal testimony to the program as a builder over the past five years. He has built 43 homes in LaVerkin, Enoch, Ivins, Kanab and Mesquite Nevada, he said, nice, modest homes. They were not well-built “back in the day,” he said, but these homes today have to meet Energy Star 3.0 rating – an energy efficiency rating program of the Environmental Protection Agency – whereas, 90 percent of the homes would not have met that rating years ago.

These are private citizens purchasing homes, Allred said, and Rural Development is just acting as their bank.

Dixie Springs residence show up in force, at Hurricane City Council. Hurricane City, Utah. August 21, 2014 | Photo by T.S Romney St. George News
Dixie Springs residence show up in force, at Hurricane City Council. Hurricane City, Utah. August 21, 2014 | Photo by T.S Romney St. George News

Program participants respond

Dennise Lesko and her husband Rick Lesko qualified for the self-help program. Rick Lesko had recently retired from the post office, after 27 years of service, Dennise Lesko said. They were introduced to the program by a neighbor who has since built her own home in Ivins through this program.

“We chose to pursue the program because these homes are well built,” Dennise Lesko said. “We have seen them, and it helps us to put sweat equity in because we do not have the down payment anymore.”

The homes are not $400,000 houses and you can tell the difference, Dennise Lesko said; however, they are modest, and well kept up because the people who built them have invested more in them than just money. She and her husband are required to help build eight houses, and will spend 1,560 hours minimum, stressing they are not fly-by-night homes.

“We want to reside in Dixie Springs,” Dennise Lasko said. “We would like very much for everyone else to be comfortable with us living there also.”

Dixie Springs residents respond

“This is not a personal thing against the people,” Nancy Crowley said. “This is something for the people of Dixie Springs.”

On Aug. 8, they found a Web page by accident about the mutual self-help program, Crowley said. Until then, they had no idea the program was coming into their subdivision. Dixie Springs is a premier community in Hurricane, Crowley said, with many homes over half a million dollars. If you take the appraised value of the homes of Dixie Springs, you would not come close to the value of the program’s proposed homes.

The mayor has known about this project a long time, she said, and he did not tell the residents before they accidentally ran across it on the website.

“Currently there are over 100 families, or over 200 adults, who have spoken out against this project. I am getting more emails every day.”

Dixie Springs residents  have four major concerns, Crowley outlined:

  • The type of housing is inappropriate for the neighborhood.
    • Dixie Springs residents have gone to the developments in LaVerkin and Ivins, Crowley said, and they have photos – homes that are modest and do not fit in Dixie Springs.
    • Dixie Springs residents expect elected officials to make appropriate recommendations on projects, for the least negative impact on the city, and place homes in neighborhoods with comparable home values.
  • People purchased homes in the community because of its high quality.
    • Current homeowners should have been told before they spent their money that there would be government-subsidized housing.
    • People in the program need to not only be able to afford their loan payments but to be able to maintain their property.
    • These people cannot get loans through another source; the loans are subsidized and the loans are extended to 33 0r 38 years to make the payments affordable. The payments also go up as their incomes go up, Crowley said, so in many cases the house maintenance will not be possible.
    • While the current homeowners understand the new owners have to comply with the CC&Rs, Crowley said, any advocacy by the mayor and council is questionable.
  • This project will degrade the image of Dixie Springs.
    • Dixie Springs has a great reputation, it’s why the current homeowners came there.
    • Government subsidized housing in Dixie Springs will make the development a much less desirable place to live, she said, and property values will go down, and people will move out.
  • The time required to build the homes is too long.
    • Building a home is a great mess, Crowley said, the dirt, nails, garbage, noise.
    • Eight homes being built over the course of a year is going to be quite a disruption to the area.

The median home value in Dixie Springs is not $200,000, Crowley said; to say it is, is an outright lie.

City officials respond

After a round of applause for Crowley, Bramall said:

The first time I heard about this was when it came up on my agenda for City Council a few weeks ago. If you heard about it before then, you heard about it before I did. The rumor I have heard about this for a long time is false. I had to read about what this is over the last few weeks, and what I found was, under our constitution, people are allowed to build their house, on their property, as long as they stay within the CC&Rs. For us as a city, to violate an individual’s rights or property rights – I have a hard time with that.

Hurricane City Attorney Fay Reber said:

This project does not require City Council approval. These are private people, purchasing lots and building homes. The city has no right to approve it, and no right to deny it.

The community does have the right to enforce their own CC&Rs, Reber said.

Members of the crowd began to argue with the council from their seats. Allred began rebutting the statements made by Crowley. The mayor was forced to use his gavel to bring the meeting back into order.

Bramall said that over his many years of service as a councilman and mayor, he has worked to improve Dixie Springs, and wants to keep doing so. He opened up the meeting for citizens to come to the podium one-by-one, all of who echoed the concerns Crowley had presented.

Councilman Kevin Tervort said he agreed with the citizens of Dixie Springs, and felt that the Five County Association needs to look elsewhere; but, he said, the city could not stop private citizens from purchasing homes.

Other business

The council approved a resolution to delay impact fees for vacant land used as community gardens, specifying that a community garden is a group of at least 5 neighboring families who form a board of directors and establish bylaws to regulate the plot intended for the garden. After meeting these requirements, the community garden through the landowner or one of the landowner’s agents, can get a water meter from the city.

Hurricane City Engineer Arthur LeBaron said that this process will prevent any group desiring to establish a community garden from having to attend a city council meeting for approval. LeBaron said impact fees on properties used for community gardens will be delayed until the owner files for a building permit.

St. George News Reporter Reuben Wadsworth contributed the other business portion of this report.

Resources

Mutual Self-Help Program 

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Email: tsromney@stgnews.com

Twitter: @STGnews

Copyright St. George News, SaintGeorgeUtah.com LLC, 2014, all rights reserved.

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56 Comments

  • Brian August 22, 2014 at 3:06 pm

    I have friends that are building a house exactly this way right now. There are a lot of upsides: personal responsibility; it’s a hand up, not a handout; the families get to know each other really well, etc. However, if the houses being built aren’t representative of the area they’re being built in, then I can see why people would be upset. Other than that they should be supportive, I think. How else are newlyweds supposed to ever afford a house in this ridiculous market and economy?

  • DonSeven August 22, 2014 at 3:20 pm

    Sounds like a case of people that think we should help people, as long as it’s not in their neighborhood. Bunch of hypocrites.

    • Lance August 23, 2014 at 7:30 am

      Agreed, more do-gooderism promoted as social justice by people that think we should help people, as long as it’s someone else’s money. I wonder if the existing residents will get subsidies for an increased police force to control the associated increase in crime that goes hand-in-hand with “poor people”**.

      **USA poor – with only 1 vehicle, fat on free govt. food, with last year’s xbox, and only one wide-screen mass hypnosis device.

  • youngmom August 22, 2014 at 4:04 pm

    Soooo people who have financial struggles are not welcome. Who the hell would want to build a home amongst these snobby judgemental people anyways? I’m sure they would treat the residents of these homes with the same disrespect shown at this meeting. This community should be ashamed of their actions against people they have never met. How pathetic.

    • aja August 22, 2014 at 5:33 pm

      Pathetic is your comment, youngmom. These people have paid every penny for their home with blood sweat and tears. As long as they don’t build in your neighborhood then we should help them right?

      When low income housing hits a neighborhood, all it does is devalue the properties around them, where everyone else who didn’t get a hand out had to sweat for every penny they sunk into their property. Youngmom you must be a hypocrite or must be extending your arm for a handout from the tax payer.

      • youngmom August 22, 2014 at 6:55 pm

        Hahaha I would love to have these homes go up in my neighborhood! “Wah I have poor people in my neighborhood:'(:'( ” cry me a river you judgemental snobs. And these people aren’t asking for their ***hole neighbors’ help, are they? Nope. Sorry that some aren’t as fortunate as you are.

        • zzaezyro August 24, 2014 at 11:27 am

          Gold star, youngmom, you get a gold star! All these people want is opportunity, and they’re goddamn well working for it. It’s not a hand-out if they’re putting over 1,000 hours into building their homes. My family has gone from prominence in a neighborhood just like this one, down to being bankrupt and have downsized considerably. I know that my parents would love to have an opportunity like this.

  • Beerbelly August 22, 2014 at 4:51 pm

    The homeowners in Dixie Springs say their home values are well over $400K on average? Is that the amount of the mortgage or the actual appraisal of the homes? You can list a doublewide for $200K but that doesn’t mean it is worth that. Dixie Springs Residents need a reality check. Get over yourselves! These residents will make good neighbors, unfortunately you won’t.

  • Rachel August 22, 2014 at 4:55 pm

    Wow…I love to see all this good Christian people showing up to encourage those who are less fortunate to have the opportunity to live amongst others who value good living. Oh wait, all those white, old ass, phony Christians are really there to say, “Hey, I will give you a handout on Sunday, but don’t you expect me to behave in a Christian manner any other time. You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

    • aja August 22, 2014 at 5:37 pm

      Wow! You are very judgmental. When the government imposes the charity it ceases to be charity. GIVE THEM MONEY AS LONG AS ITS NOT YOURS RIGHT? HYPOCRITE!

      • youngmom August 22, 2014 at 7:04 pm

        Omg can we stop yelling? We’re all adults here aren’t we? Get your facts straight aja, this isn’t a charity. And can you please find another “insult.” You might be able to get away with “hypocrite” if either of us had said anything derogatory about those who qualify for this program, or if you knew us. However, I never said I don’t want these homes in my neighborhood, and this person never said they wouldn’t donate.

      • Happierthanyou August 23, 2014 at 10:13 am

        I dont even know what your talking about? When did I say a word about giving anything to anyone? I was just making the point that we pretend to be christians only when we want to impress our neighbor.

    • zzaezyro August 24, 2014 at 11:29 am

      And even on Sundays they’ll judge you.

  • sing4money August 22, 2014 at 4:59 pm

    Hahaha…..there worried the houses wont be median homes in the 200,000.00 range. People take a look around in your community, its no Beverly hills…in fact its no Saint George. Over inflated ego’s.

  • Zion13 August 22, 2014 at 5:22 pm

    WOW… I was so frustrated and disappointed in the way the people of Dixie Springs treated the Council , even after they were advised that the council has no power over the isuue. I have 2 lots there and they were to be used for this program. It is NOT subsidized , its a loan. Looks to me as if these residents need to turn up their volume on the ears and shut the mouth to learn before speaking.

    • Leo August 22, 2014 at 6:33 pm

      A loan from where? Banks of course! Where do the banks get their money?

  • Alissa August 22, 2014 at 5:30 pm

    I just want to add that I worked with Doni Pack and applied for this opportunity to own a home. I am a single mother who works full time for the City. I didn’t qualify because my child’s’ father pays child support and I was over the limit by very little. The application process included checking my credit, making sure I had stable employment, and making sure that I could put in a number of hours of elbow grease. I was interested in this program because I wanted to be a part of a close knit community and not just rental properties where neighbors come and go and not because I didn’t have any other options. This makes me sad that the neighbors that were almost my neighbors didn’t want me there. I just bought a home the conventional way and I would welcome the development in my neighborhood because I know how tight the screening process is from personal experience. I hope I provided another perspective.

  • Koolaid August 22, 2014 at 5:31 pm

    I thought all of Hurricane was low income housing. Maybe the horse stable areas are a little more attractive to a few and warrant a higher price.

  • Leo August 22, 2014 at 5:32 pm

    You people must be on welfare!

  • chupacabra August 22, 2014 at 5:39 pm

    What a bunch of douche nozzles. Hopefully this group of Dixie springs residents is not representative of the whole community. I believe these objectors should gather with the uppity crowd of objectors in Bloomington for a grand orgy, so they may celebrate their grand accomplishments and admire their fine twined linen.

    What mean ye? He beat my people to pieces, and grind the faces of my poor, saith the Lord God of Hosts.

    Sound familiar much?

  • Bender August 22, 2014 at 5:40 pm

    There are 42 Dixie Springs neighborhood properties listed in the Washington County MLS currently (August 22, 2014). Here is the statistical breakdown on the asking prices:
    .
    Average $270,519
    Count 42
    Max $369,900
    Min $198,100
    Median $269,400
    .
    It’s always surprising how mean and petty those newly arrived to the middle class are to those who they just left behind.
    .
    All you unhappy Dixie Springs residents who are also Tea Party crazies raise your hands. I thought so.

    • Not Convinced... August 23, 2014 at 2:16 am

      The projected sales price for median value in a neighborhood determines YOUR home’s appraised value. So, if these residents have a $270k home now then that is the median range. When you factor a $120-150k home into the average then the $270k value is diminished. That is the issue. It’s not about being elitist. It is about dollars and cents and the expectation you rely on when you buy in an established subdivision. It’s about the anticipated value you expect to one day achieve when you take out the loan…and the City understands it, they just may not be able to stop what’s going on.

  • chupacabra August 22, 2014 at 5:40 pm

    *Ye not He.

  • justhinking August 22, 2014 at 6:33 pm

    Didn’t we just go through a terrible economic crash that we haven’t recovered from because the government insisted on people being able to buy houses they couldn’t afford? This sounds eerily familiar.

  • Maris August 22, 2014 at 6:34 pm

    I have been in my home for 3 years. I participated in this same program but in Ivins. I love my home. All of the houses on my street save but 2 are mutual self help homes. You would never know the difference between my neighborhood and a neighborhood elsewhere. My neighbors and myself work, have children, go to church and live their lives just the same as anyone else, the ONLY difference is that we spent a year learning how to build a home. Before this program I had never held a power tool or worn a tool belt. By the time I was done building, I felt comfortable with all the tools except the skill saw. I know how to frame a house, put up plywood, how to tile and grout. I didn’t get to participate in my son’s whole first year of school because I was building the moment I was off wor and on my days off. I put my life on hold to do this. I lost 2 toenails, had to usr a portapotty in the middle of summer and ended up with a sever case of carpal tunnel. But it was all worth it. My children are not going to have to grow up living in an apartment. The statistics show that children of single.mothers who live in apartments are more likely to be trouble makers than children who are raised in a home of their own.
    This is a good neighborhood with good hard working people.

  • bobber August 22, 2014 at 6:39 pm

    If you’re poor or have come on hard times it’s because you’re not worthy and have angered or displeased “THE LORD”. GO TO YOUR BISHOP AND REPENT ASAP!!!

    • zzaezyro August 24, 2014 at 11:52 am

      Oh, PLEASE. Haven’t I seen your bigoted comments all over this site? How do you explain the richest and most successful people in this country? They aren’t a part of your religion. The way you speak leads me to infer that you are an older gentleman who is set in his ways, and nothing I say will change your mind. But isn’t your God omnibenevolent? And, as an ex-Mormon, I know firsthand that there are PLENTY of downtrodden, poor people in the church who receive goods from the Bishop’s Storehouse, because they can’t afford to buy it on their own. These people are members of your church, “Bobber”. They are believers. So if your logic stands, why aren’t they successful? Why are they stuck at the bottom?

      There are plenty of good Mormon people. There are plenty of good non-Mormon people. All it comes down to in this messed up system is money or the lack thereof. Money it seems has become more valuable in peoples’ eyes than the lives of their fellow humans, when the exact opposite is true. Open your eyes.

  • bobber August 22, 2014 at 6:40 pm

    And who else thinks it’s a downer that our whole area is becoming a giant nursing home???

    • Happierthanyou August 23, 2014 at 10:24 am

      is that the smell around here? i was wondering

  • Dee August 22, 2014 at 6:53 pm

    My question for those Dixie Springs residents who had NOTHING but the value of their property on their minds: You stated how wonderful and great this community is, that you searched high and far to find such a place, what does it matter then if your property value decreases or increases? Are you looking to sell/move away from this wonderful super great community?
    Sounds like you don’t really feel that way at all or it would not be such a big deal….

  • Redredred August 22, 2014 at 8:02 pm

    Dixie Spring sounds like a bunch of the liberal elite they are all for being charitable as long as it not in their neighborhood. These are hard working people that can afford the house payment.

  • Diane August 22, 2014 at 8:07 pm

    I was at that meeting and I have to say..the representation of the quality of people from Dixie Springs was BLISSFUL…but remember, ignorance IS bliss!

    • ed August 22, 2014 at 8:53 pm

      Diane, yep we are blissful! Ignorant naaa don’t think so. Go get smart and check the facts on government housing and projects. You will learn they are just a HUGE success.

      • Diane August 23, 2014 at 1:00 pm

        Ed my comment is solely based on the behavior I witnessed at this meeting. I did do my research, perhaps you should take your own advice. There are many communities in this state that have seen the wisdom, kindness and benefit of these programs. You are talking oranges and apples. There are different government housing projects I am specifically speaking about this Mutual Self Help program-not section 8, not any others this one! The attitude and behavior of the residents of D. S is inexcusable! Period! Yes there are concerns, I am not disputing that. I am however very impressed with the attitude and ignorance of the people who “know” everything they need to know-which is not the actual truth, just their own version-presented with the smoke screen of “home values” when it most obviously was not the real cause for upset. Honesty was not present or maybe it was.

  • Lori August 22, 2014 at 10:29 pm

    It seems as though everyone here wants to say everyone in DixieSprings is a snob and ready to trash the family’s that will live in these homes. I am sitting on the fence of this issue. I have seen how low income homes can evolve negatively and positively for a neighborhood. But I for one would treat any family with respect and kindness. But I do think these homes should be build in a different area. It’s only because the lots were priced for sale and I think that is why they choose this area. Money talks. Who ever owned these lots did not care about the values of the other homes in the area. It will effect the values and that is one reason why residence are upset and the program does lend to a hand out of sorts. But it is what it is and I will be one to welcome those folks.

  • Glad2SErve August 22, 2014 at 10:37 pm

    I am waiting for approval of this program and I am sad that I have to think twice about providing a home for my autistic son. The people at Dixie Springs and other communities like it are not the people I was thinking of when I proudly served and gave up my life for my country for 9.5 yrs. They would gladly put me in front of someone else’s bullet to protect them but can’t support a Vet in need. Really shameful.

  • P.I.F.A. August 22, 2014 at 11:01 pm

    Why is it so hard for people to see through emotional reactions and simply focus on reality? Let’s all jump on the bandwagon if we have a chance to vilify people who have a little more than we do. It’s so much fun to feel self-righteous on the internet. For the record, I live in Dixie Springs.

    In spite of the arguments on both sides, none of this has anything to do with people. Those families that want to take advantage of this program, more power to you. Some of the angry residents out here need to separate emotion from reality. Five County Association of Governments, for their part, should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.

    Any resident of Dixie Springs who thinks that someone doesn’t belong out here simply because they don’t make enough money should go away along with Five Counties. Any government agency that will parade people in front of an angry mob to put a “personal face” on an issue, simply to promote their cause, is worse than the small minded people who think that money makes them superior.

    The bottom line of this entire issue is simply that Five Counties is pushing their own agenda, for their own reasons, and they are willing to do so at the expense of the families that they claim, for their propaganda, to be altruistically serving. As of a week ago, before they conveniently took down their web page for the “Dixie Springs Project” they were actively soliciting for applications on the website. It can’t be about the people if the program precedes the participants. In addition, their own webpage described the program as being for “low-income families” and described Dixie Springs as “a middle to upper-class neighborhood”. Those are their words, not mine.
    This is a program that is the brainchild of someone besides the families it helps. The families themselves did not come up with the idea to band together to help themselves, and none of them have approached the community to look into the possibility of building a home out here. Rather, Five Counties put all the pieces in place very quietly, knowing that this community would be the poster child for their program if they could pull it off. How convenient for them that they can paint the residents as bigoted if they dare to complain about facing the possible reality of yet another major hit to their financial security. The residents of Dixie Springs suffered proportionately with the rest of society during the financial collapse of the last 7 years. A little paranoia, even if unjustified is completely understandable.

    Five Counties shot themselves in the foot, because they chose the path of trying to push their agenda through without any concern for the people who have worked just as hard as anyone else to already be here. Best case scenario, the program is as good as they claim it to be, and might actually be a good thing for the neighborhood. They could have embarked on a campaign to address the stigma that is attached to “low-income, government subsidized housing” before moving forward in this area. If this program is truly a different animal than the stereotype, then they should have presented their case and convinced us. They lost all credibility by choosing to keep the neighborhood in the dark until it was almost too late to do anything about it (it was only by sheer luck that the full extent of their project was discovered before they broke ground).

    As I mentioned in the beginning, this has nothing to do with any specific people. They announced they were getting ready to break ground while at the same time they were still soliciting applications to find people willing to enroll in the program. The large majority of people in this neighborhood would likely bend over backwards to help these families on an individual basis. When a government agency steps up and mandates that we will help, that we will help on the agency’s terms, and that we will help to the very possible detriment of our financial security, that is nothing short of criminal. For them to then put these families in the middle of the emotional cauldron is akin to using kids as pawns in an ugly divorce.

    The bottom line is simply that the proposed homes are not of similar overall quality, design, appeal, etc. to the rest of the homes out here, no matter how they spin it. Any individual submitting the exact same plan would be denied approval on the basis of the CC&Rs governing the neighborhood. Whether or not they can find loopholes to claim they meet the CC&Rs is fundamentally irrelevant. Creative statistics and accounting can show numbers to support just about anything. If they want to buy property out here and build that’s fine, but they should be held to the same standards and regulations as anyone else. If someone shoe-horned me and my Dixie Springs home into a neighborhood like Stone Cliff, there would be an uproar, and rightly so. I don’t aspire to live in Stone Cliff because I can’t afford it. Likewise, these wonderful and hardworking families (that is not sarcasm) should not be shoe-horned into this neighborhood. The ugliness of human nature almost guarantees that they will be pariahs before they even get here. That’s not right, but if people are powerless to fight the real problem (Five Counties) then unfortunately anger gets channeled elsewhere.

    I do worry that perhaps there is more to this program than the stereotype of “low-income, government subsidized” housing would suggest. However, we will never know and Five Counties shoulders the lion’s share of accountability for that one. One simply has to take a quick drive through this neighborhood to realize that what they want to do simply does not fit here. It’s not nuanced or vague. It’s abundantly clear. For them to continue to move forward in spite of the evidence just further solidifies that this is about the agency’s agenda, regardless of the damage done to either Dixie Springs or the families trying to avail themselves of the program.

    • Diane August 23, 2014 at 4:47 pm

      I am curious where you get your information? I am not interested in the politics of this conversation. What I am interested in the information that you stated specifically, the conversation had with the architectural committee a few weeks ago and I quote your words
      ” the proposed homes are not of similar overall quality, design, appeal, etc. to the rest of the homes out here”. The committee after reviewing the plans with Mr. Allred and Ms. Pack, acknowledged that the homes proposed were a better quality home than they had built, after being told the materials used example 2×6’s instead of 2 x4’s. The energy star rating that Jerry spoke of at the meeting thursday, the insulation rating, ect…Please, explain how these are not quality homes?

      I ask, where you there? Are you a member of that board? Or is it hearsay that you are repeating? No I was not present either, but We heard this information straight from Jerry on Thursday so again I ask, how is it that these are low quality homes? You seen to KNOW everything about this program except for the facts dear sir or madam.. And after that disgusting show on Thursday tell me how can you say it was not a personal attack on the people involved in the project? Maybe not from everyone but if it looks like a duck smells like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck…Hiding behind the “home value” crap was a smoke screen. It is about “bad element” as one lady put it..the elephant in the room. If someone is going to be discriminating they should at least have the courage to stand their ground and be accountable for it…but they were/aren’t not because it is disgusting.

      • Leo August 24, 2014 at 8:38 am

        Diane, so a 2×6 wall makes it a quality home? It’s obvious you no nothing about building homes! To say anything more would a complete waste of time. If you can’t speak intelligently then go pick up trash in your yard.

    • Lori August 23, 2014 at 11:09 pm

      Thank you for your post. Very well said and I for one have a better understanding.

    • Concerned Citizen August 24, 2014 at 9:43 am

      Just to reply to your miss information about things that happened in the meeting on Thursday Five County did go speak with the ACC 2 weeks before all this came out and it is the ACC that started all the ignorance that is happening out at Dixie Springs. Five County isn’t trying to cram the homes in to this upper end sub division as you put it. Wasn’t it only 3 to 4 years ago you could buy lots out there for $3000.00 to $7,000.00 dollars plus the Special improvement district fee that the city of Hurricane put in out there so that you fine upstanding citizens could drive on and use. So don’t go saying that you didn’t receive any government hand out you self righteous bigots. These families have every right to build their homes out there as long as they meet the CC&R’s that you fine people are trying to change to keep them out. So if they submit their plans and they meet the square footage requirements I hope that all the self righteous one do leave and they can go some where else and make someone else’s life miserable.
      So would the fine people of Dixie Springs be okay with the Families living in Plot E where they will have to drive by the homes to go to the nice park that the City of Hurricane is going to put in out there Oh Another Government Hand Out guess you aren’t any better than anyone esle.

    • Nana October 25, 2014 at 7:55 pm

      There was no agenda. They bought land for these families and we’re ready to build. These families have been through enough without the judgement and harassment of Dixie Springs residents. You judge the program as if you know what is going on but you don’t. five Coiunty AOG are good people trying to do a wonderful thing. the website was taken down because after the harassment they were no longer building there and had to change the website information. the applications are always up so people can apply for the next build. There is nothing pushy or devious about it. I wouldn’t want to live in Dixie Springs after this. Too bad no one wants to take the discrimination case. that would really put st george and surrounding areas on alert to watch their peas and Q’s. This is not 1950 and I for one am grateful for that. Southern Utah needs to progress with the rest of the world and stop being stuck in the dark ages

  • Not Convinced... August 23, 2014 at 2:10 am

    If the new owners are being ‘set up’ by resentment from their neighbors, and the neighbors will be negatively impacted by the value of these 8 houses (that’s a lot of houses!) then I’d relocate the project. If they can make these homes fit with the neighborhood then I don’t see where the arguments come from but if they are non-conforming why build there?

    A few years ago we had to live with the quiet arrival of a triple wide trailer ‘home’ installation on our street. No one could believe that it happened and once it was there no one could change it. It was unbelievable to the balance of us. We live in a traditional-home subdivision for a reason. (Had we gone down to the mixed trailer/home subdivision in town our mortgage would be much less for a newer home.) We bought there thinking it would remain exclusively traditional, owner occupied, upper scale homes. There are 2 such trailer homes on our street now, both on corners, and they devalue the balance of the entire neighborhood. When refinancing a few years ago an appraiser mentioned them in his report as being ‘nearby’. I don’t care how you landscape them or try to keep them nice, they are trailers. The residents who have lived in them have paid a price too…it’s hard not to be angry with someone who just cost you $30k on your home’s appraised value, just by living across from you.

  • Boink August 23, 2014 at 5:30 am

    Instead of Dixie Springs, call it Dixie Dingalings

  • T. squidward August 23, 2014 at 12:41 pm

    Check out the obese SpongeBob looking guy in the front row.

    Wow, what a bunch of elite snobs who have NO idea what this program is about and why it was established. Well here’s to praying for a mudslide in Dixie Springs to humble the lot. May chipmunks pack your away your nuts and grubs infest your lawns.

  • Koolaid August 23, 2014 at 2:57 pm

    Bunch of old people, the type that complain about not getting enough social security, how the government isn’t doing everything for them for free, and the type that go raid the sample food displays at every shopping center. They are the type that offer a dime at yard sales for $5 items. Don’t do anything for anybody. Too busy complaining that everyone else isn’t doing enough for them.

  • Bobbers August 23, 2014 at 6:00 pm

    If you’d have a $400,000 home and a folks come in and build less value homes and drop your value to $200,000 they just took from you $200,000. I’m sure most of you commenting don’t understand that because you’ve never had any extra money. I would bet that all but 1% who are on this site have any money in saving most have high credit card debt and can’t save and for all you people have recievee or are receiving any form of government check you are the problem. I know it hurts. To be a government employee but that’s how it is when you have half your brain removed learn to work learn to save learn to be self reliant. What needs to happen is segregate the poor from the middle class and the wealthy. At least we would know what neighbor hoods are getting the hand outs. Right now the welfare cases want to feel like their mingled in with the ones how have learned the selfs efficacy. Yes this even includes you dead beats that had to short sell your homes have boats cars four wheelers turned in as repo. Over spending is as bad never having any money to spend.

    • Diane August 26, 2014 at 1:41 pm

      Bobbers, great comment! Too bad its filled with self righteous pious and ignorance.

    • illusions August 28, 2014 at 9:09 am

      Not all the homes in Dixie Springs are 400K homes. See for yourself by searching the net and asking realtors. I have seen homes from $189K up to 395K nothing above that. If you paid 400K which I doubt, then you probably paid too much. Most lots start at around 19K for the land. This land is open to anybody who has the cash. I say ….. Go buy some land people!! Had I heard this a couple of months ago and this all happened a couple of months ago I would have purchased a couple of spots myself. Anyone can purchase them.

  • Doug August 23, 2014 at 8:20 pm

    Just a bunch of hypocrites who attend church on Sunday and claim to follow Christ. Pharisees, all of them.

  • illusions August 28, 2014 at 9:12 am

    To add a note I am actually working on a self imposed research project to find out exactly how much of what the residents said at the meeting or true. Cant argue with facts and prefudice

  • illusions August 28, 2014 at 9:16 am

    that was supposed to say prejudice. And before you ridicule me for misspelling or using the word in the first place, please consider the following:
    Prejudice
    : an unfair feeling of dislike for a person or group because of race, sex, religion, etc.

    : a feeling of like or dislike for someone or something especially when it is not reasonable or logical

    : injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of another in disregard of one’s rights; especially : detriment to one’s legal rights or claims
    2
    a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge
    b : an instance of such judgment or opinion
    c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

  • illusions August 28, 2014 at 9:33 am

    One more thing then I will stop: Discrimination is against the law. You say you are not discriminating but I would be careful if I was you. This could get much bigger.

    Discrimination refers to the treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit. Discrimination can be the effect of some law or established practice that confers privileges on a certain class or denies privileges to a certain class because of race, age, sex, nationality, religion, or handicap. Federal law, including Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, prohibits employment discrimination based on any one of those characteristics. Other federal statutes, supplemented by court decisions, prohibit discrimination in voting rights, housing, credit extension, public education, and access to public facilities. State laws also provide further protection against discrimination.

    The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments of the United States Constitution provide protection against discrimination by federal and state governments. The Fifth amendment prohibits the federal government from depriving individuals of “life, liberty, or property,” without due process of the law. It also guarantees that each person receive equal protection of the laws. (“property”)

    What Dixie Springs is doing could legally be considered prejudice, discrimination and housing segregation which are all against the law when analyzed at its core. When you break down the group that was planning the build you will find people from all walks of life including Veterans and people with disabilities as well as all being families with children. All of these facts could come back to haunt those at Dixie Springs who opposed the build and it could all be fought legally in court whether it be suing each resident that stood against them at the meeting individually or Dixie Springs as a whole.

    Times are changing and there are laws to protect the group who have done absolutely nothing wrong. Feel free to research if you dont believe me

  • Housing Rights August 31, 2014 at 10:39 am

    Thank you, Illusions, for your comments. You are focusing on facts and laws and the rights of Americans under the Constitution. I have been doing some research of my own, and I concur that based on the verbal and written comments, letters, and flyers proffered by residents of Dixie Springs, there is a clear case for a discrimination charge. Dixie Springs Subdivision is zoned as residential housing. Any one can purchase property. When the Mutual Self Help Program staff met with the Architectural Control Committee, the CC and R’s DID allow homes to be built with a minimum main floor living space of 1,600 sq ft. The MSH Program staff agreed to alter their house plans to meet this requirement. Then the ACC hurried to increase the square footage to 1,800 sq ft and to file the CC and R’s. The ACC was aware that this increase would probably prevent the MSH Program from building at Dixie Springs. What the ACC didn’t consider is that their actions could place them front and center to a lawsuit based on housing legislation.

  • Sandra January 13, 2015 at 8:53 am

    Come out in force on Thursday Jan 15 to show your support to these families. Groundbreaking in Toquerville, Ut on Peachtree Dr. At 3pm……please come celebrate and welcome them to the beginning of their new homes. These families have been through a lot and rejected by traditional communities in the area. All your love and support makes a difference. Stand with them on the 15th as they embark on a new and more positive journey.

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