OPINION – According to an article this week in St. George News: “An anti-discrimination bill slated to safeguard housing and employment rights for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender individuals was pronounced dead in the Utah Legislature Wednesday.”
In essence, they are going to shelf the issue for what could be a year or more in the interest of avoiding any negative impact on the state’s brewing battle before the 10th Circuit of Appeals.
The potentially negative impact being suggested is a possible perception of animus towards the LGBT community in Utah in light of the current battle over Amendment 3, same sex marriage.
Or …
The hard line religious right which predominantly governs this state is as insidiously bigoted and prejudiced as they look.
Given the performance of the leaders of this state, a wager on the latter would likely yield a win, but they will have you believe they are really just trying to be fair.
Not at all to demean anyone by over simplification here, but isn’t this what it boils down to?
On the one hand, a group of predominantly white Christian Republicans are standing their ground on principles they deem righteous. Not only are they tying to keep gay marriage illegal in the state but they are also going to allow landlords and business owners to discriminate against others based on sexual orientation and identity.
On the other hand, a group of multicultural, likely liberal and Democrat people are pleading with these people to abide constitutional principles and, just for kicks, see the hypocrisy.
Hypocrisy, because one can only imagine what would happen to a business or property owner in this state who openly refused to rent to or do business with a person because they were Mormon. The cries of discrimination and “hater” would be heard loud and clear.
So while this is all working itself through the courts to help Utah yet again find its way to the right side in the annals of history, perhaps we can pose a relevant question: Of all the sins rampant in the world, and of all the sins distinctly relevant to Utah, why is homosexuality the all out deal breaker?
Why is it that when it comes to the scriptures’ take on sin, Utah is only willing to let the cat partially out of the bag in this case? The state picks and chooses with some curious discernment which sins it will legislate against and which ones it will simply turn a blind eye to, doesn’t it?
Is it not curiously ironic that the Utah attorney general’s office, given its noble track record of late, is heading up all of this legal wrangling over same-sex marriage and anti-gay discrimination?
Is it not hard to see a distinction between the staunch advocacy for “family values” being decimated by homosexuality and the seeming helplessness to end the modern day slavery in the FLDS sects where polygamy is practiced?
Efforts would be better directed towards focusing on the overwhelmingly high statistics of fraud, prescription drug abuse, and teen suicide in this state. Surely focusing on those would be more beneficial to families than trying to defend an unconstitutional law.
And let’s not even get into Utah’s nationwide ranking on the use of internet pornography.
Homosexuality, like no other issue, can bring out a vehemence in Utahns and that vehemence begs the question – why?
Why is it that the malice and outright hypocrisy over the homosexual debate cannot be seen here? Why can’t it be seen when the golden rules of “do unto others” and its close cousin “live and let live” are readily given as a defense to religious freedom, business autonomy, and states’ rights?
Perhaps a solution would be for a people with an outspoken history of persecution to exercise some humility and recognize that they have, in some parts, become the persecutors.
We in Utah can shoulder each other’s burdens with compassion and understanding. This can be done by applying the principles of one’s scriptures to oneself, and leaving judgment and condemnation, if you will, to someone more justly apt to handle it.
See you out there.
Dallas Hyland is an opinion columnist. The opinions stated in this article are his and not representative of St. George News.
Related posts:
- Urquhart’s anti-discrimination bill tabled for another year
- Perspectives: Anti-discrimination laws, do unto others or else
- On the EDge: What is more dangerous to Utah families, polygamy or same-sex marriage?
- On the EDge: Questions remain in aftermath of polygamy ruling
- Urquhart to reintroduce LGBT antidiscrimination bill
- Dixie’s LGBT community celebrates Equality Utah with purpose
Email: [email protected]
Twitter: @dallashyland
Copyright St. George News, SaintGeorgeUtah.com LLC, 2014, all rights reserved.
The “Moral Majority” hates homosexuals..Plain & simple. I grew up in an area of the US, where 1 out of 2 of your friends, were gay. No big whoop in my life…What bothers me, is when ANYONE tries to tell someone else how they SHOULD live (according to them). You have ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT to tell people how they should live. Especially according to your life..It’s their life..Leave them be…The gay culture is not hurting you at all, except according to your way of life. YOUR way of lie is not the only way to live.
(I am straight, married with 3 kids, and I believe everyone should have the right to live happy, and free from religious persecution……
Brian, 1 out of 2?? They say about 2-3% of the population is gay. Not 50%!!! Your statement is silly.
it doesn’t matter if its two or fifty percent. discrimination is discrimination and it isn’t right
“Love one another” it’s that simple. I am a mother of two gay children, it’s wrong to discriminate and ignorant. I was raised in Palo Alto California. I am embarrassed to live in a city that easily discriminates.
Stop blaming the religion. I get so tired of people thinking that everything is tied to one thing in this state: religion. It’s a narrow point of view. And the “in your face” tactics the LGBT community are using aren’t helping matters. I’m sure there are other states whose legislature would do the same thing, and with no predominant religion involved, what excuse would you find? I don’t see other states racing to do what this proposed bill would have done. It’s going to take time AND respect on both sides of the issue to change things. It’s inevitable.
Sorry, Janet, but when the argument the hard right consistently brings to the table is that non-discrimination laws infringe on their “religious freedoms,” how can you sat it’s not tied to religion. I suppose we should all just know our place, huh? Then we wouldn’t be so “in your face” with our efforts to ensure fair and just housing and employment for ALL Utahns. I love when those who aren’t at risk tell the rest of us to be patient and wait for them to eventually change their minds. Or, in the case of Utah, wait for God to change his mind and send a message down the line, huh?
Everything is tied to religion in Utah, at the state level, the county level and even the city level. The religious control the mormon church has over the Utah government and it’s citizens is frightening, just as bad as the dictatorship controls found in Iran, N. Korea, Uganda, and even the Taliban in Afghanistan. Personal freedom is not enjoyed in Utah. Instead of personal freedom, people conform to the religious governmental control, just as people conform the to governments in the aforementioned countries. In Utah, it’s the mormon church way or the highway. If you have conflicts with the mormon controlled government regime, expect to be ostracized in many settings, because the mormon church has instilled a fear factor in its members. Conform and follow and do as you are told, or else. I think it’s very present in St George, but people have become adjusted to the control, they actually think it’s good. The same argument could be used for N, Korea, Iran, Uganda, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, etc…
You people have GOT to be kidding me! Talk about hypocrisy and calling names! You people need to re-read your posts and see where the hate is directed. Get a grip and why not lay off people for their beliefs. I don’t give a darn what a homosexual believes and could care less what they do, but it seems you all have a problem with what others believe.
Just calling out the religious community on its hatred. Remember the Dixie College parades and school events of slave captures, lynchings, black faces? Hatred runs deep in the religious confines of southern Utah. You have become accustomed to it and think its normal.
I don’t see where he’s attacking BELIEFS, he’s attacking actions!
Quit throwing your religion in our faces everywhere we go..Utah is not just a Mormon state..EVERYONE lives here, and we all don’t think like you….
Good one, Brian. You don’t even know me and already don’t like me. Sound familiar?
Gee Janet Thorpe, I think it IS about religion — specifically a particular religion predominate here in Utah. One that chooses it’s own moral standards rather than following the teachings of the Bible and Jesus Christ. What other religion would harass (rather than accept) some of its minority members and drive them to suicide? How many New Testament teachings are violated in that issue alone. I could go on, but you wouldn’t care to listen to reason….
what I find interesting is that more then 60% of the State of Utah is not MORMONS and yet you feel that the MORMONS run this state. there are other religions that do not condone the LBTG lifestyles, but it is the MORMONS who are tearing the LBTG community down. funny thought!
How many non-mormons make up the city government bodies of St George and Washington county?
and why was Tara Dunn kicked to the curbside ??
She wasn’t an obedient mormon women who would do as told.
according to a 15 March 2006 article in the Deseret News 80% of the Utah legislature were LDS.
And every US Congressman from Utah is a mormon trying to infuse mormon dogma into US laws.
Don’t confuse Salt Lake City with Utah. If you look on a map you’ll clearly see they are different. SLC (not the valley, the city) is only 40% LDS, but Utah is still 62.1% LDS, according to the 2010 census.
Okay Janet Thorpe, I’ll stop blaming religion when religion stops blocking any attempt from the LBTG community to pursue the basic civil rights that I am entitled to but denied by this religious owned state. There’s supposed to be a separation of church and state in politics that is completely ignored in this state. It’s really come full circle when the “persecuted” (in this instance, the LDS religion) becomes the persecutor. All we want is equal rights, not special rights. The right to marry the person that you love and the right to be able to rent housing and not be fired from your job because of your sexual orientation is all we are asking for. I heard the church leaders call for “respect from both sides”, but I have yet to see that respect from them. So yes, I’ll continue to blame the religion” until it decides to see me as a human being instead of an abomination.
Dallas,
What’s your purpose of throwing the LGBT life style in the face of (quote) ‘normal’ people? I know you think this article might generate interest and a handful of responses and change the minds of (quote) the average normal person. Is that your purpose? Get a life Dallas. Do some research on the makeup of human beings, or any earthly animal spieces. If you want to tell the creator how he should have done his creative works, take it up with him. You write some pretty good articles most of the time. Stick to what your good at. How about a article on why we should have compassion for a dedicated muslim terrorist. It’s their right,
So JAR is comparing gays to terrorists now?
The mormon polygamist belief is not normal. Nor is the hateful and racist doctrine found in the BOM. That is not normal except to just mormons.
Actually plural marriage is quite common in many parts of the world.
McMurphy, my (oh-so-thorough) five-minute online search gave the following as the countries currently allowing some degree of polygamy. Which of these would you hold up as a role model for our own society?
.
.
Afghanistan
Algeria
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Brunei
Burkina Faso
Cameroon
Chad
CAR
Comoros
Congo
Djibouti
Egypt
Ethiopia
Gabon
The Gambia
India
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Jordan
Kuwait
Libya
Malaysia
Maldives
Mali
Mauritania
Morocco
Myanmar
Niger
Oman
Pakistan
Palestine
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Senegal
Singapore
Somalia
Sri Lanka
Sudan
Syria
Tanzania
Togo
Uganda
UAE
Yemen
Zambia
none, but you make my point that plural marriage is quite common
How many of those countries teach in their hateful written doctrine that blacks are lesser people than whites, unworthy, marked with the sign of Cain?
“Actually plural marriage is quite common in many parts of the world.”
and… so?
Herpes is quite common as well..
Actually I am Mormon. And we don’t believe or practice in polygamy anymore. We did that because we were being persecuted and murdered for our religion. We needed to have more babies so we wouldn’t die out. Get your facts straight before stating your opinion. Just makes you look stupid.
You mean, after you die you won’t go to some mormon polygamist planet and become a spirit bride of some mormon man turned god and have many of his spirit babies? You weren’t being persecuted; perverts and criminals were being prosecuted. American history has proved Joe Smith was a liar, thief, conman and murderer for which he should have been prosecuted. Normal people are sick of the ‘persecution’ crap. Let’s talk about the entire wagon train the mormons murdered, how the mormons stole their possessions, protected the murderers and blamed the indians. The mormons bashed in the heads of little children and defenseless women.
Brigham Young had a huge harem of women for his sexual appetite. Nowadays, people would consider him a big time … chaser, not a religious leader.
Ed. ellipsis
so if our families start dying out we can just breed our daughter’s with their uncles and save us all?????? whatever you say brooke
Hi Brooke,
There’s nothing in your post that is historically accurate, I advise taking your own advice in your last 2 sentences.
Brooke, I am willing to bet that you are one of those people who voted for Romney or Bush because your Bishop told you to. If the cult you belong to1 is so against Polygamy, why did they just ease the states Bigamy laws? Why don’t they do anything about the rampant child abuse going on down in Hildale? Why is the church so vocal in its opposition to a judges ruling declaring that two grown men or women can marry each other but remains practically silent when it comes to Hildale? Just askin’
And while Dallas is dutifully conducting his research on human and animal life relative to sexuality, perhaps you could spend some time researching the facts of this creator-guy you mention. Start by identifying his makeup, etc., and supporting it with the same sort of facts that you’ll expect from Dallas.
BTW, I’m not defending Dallas or the subject he writes on. I’m just sticking up for the process that you expect Dallas to follow: facts based on historical evidence. I suspect his work will be somewhat easier than yours, but I’m stumpin’ for you ’cause I’d like to be convinced that there’s a creator (one, hopefully, who is both firm and just). I simply don’t have any facts and evidence to speak so familiarly about him as it appears you do.
While researching what the creator did in making these earthly species, we might want to consider these types of things in the link below. What does it say about creation that even animals exhibit these behaviors?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html
“But, actually, some same-sex birds do do it. So do beetles, sheep, fruit bats, dolphins, and orangutans. Zoologists are discovering that homosexual and bisexual activity is not unknown within the animal kingdom.”
Oh JAR come on now. If you believe that God created all life including humans, why do you criticize and try to punish some entities which God has created? Do you feel you are in a position to be critical of what God has made? LBGT’s didn’t come in the side door after creation, they were created by God. Along with everything else. What are you going to say at the “pearly gates” when God asks you why you disliked and worked against part of his creation?
What we have here is not nearly as hard to figure out as folks would have us believe. The politicians are doing what politicians always do. That is to duck responsibility on hot button issues. They are hoping that if they put off doing anything long enough, either the problem will resolve itself, someone else will be big enough to step up to the plate and make a decision.
The politicians are just trying to go with whatever direction the wind blows. It ain’t a “religious thing,” it is a “political thing.”
Can the bigots PLEASE learn the difference between “your” and “you’re” before commenting? Once this task is complete, we may be able to move forward and teach them the definition of the word, “bigot”. Until then, it’s a mute point! Words like compassion, acceptance, unconditional love, understanding, and peace will always remain foreign to them.
(whispering to you that the word is “moot” point, not “mute”)
The bigotry and hatred is definitely from the unhinged supports of “LGBT” people and their supporters. No one is trying to tell you what to do in the privacy of your home and their may be some legal provisions to allow your “partners” access to your assets, et al. A few reasons many are against allowing perversion to become part of the mainstream:
1. LBGT behavior is abnormal. Take religion out of it. Look at Mother Nature and how she created the species to allow for the continuation of the species. Mother Nature is not happy.
2. LBGT behavior is a civilization destroyer. Just take the Greeks and Romans as two examples; Both civilizations stopped reproducing and immersed themselves in homosexuality and all of the depravity that accompanies it. These civilizations were weakened from within; their many other follies and evils added up with their anti-Mother Nature behavior and led to the internal rot that eventually brought them down.
3. The true nature of the LBGT lifestyle is hidden behind the Left’s attempt to provide the imagine of loving families. Let’s discuss the promiscuous, the disease, the narcissistic behavior.
4. Let’s not forget the poster boy for LGBT, Dan Savage. There is no bigger bigot, bully or disgusting human being around. Let’s talk about his life, his tactics against those that disagree with him.
5. As a practical matter, with the high levels of abortion, unstated U.S. “two-child” policy and lack of interest in procreation among the populace, the last thing we need is to encourage more behavior that will only encourage our political leaders to allow in more immigrants. Oh wait! That is what happened in Rome and Greece and look at what happened to them.
Just sayin.
The list could go on and on. No LGBT supporters, you have the rights of every citizen but you do not have nor do you deserve to be elevated to the status of husband and wife.
Most of us have friends and relatives that are homosexual. We do not hate them; on the contrary we love them but do not approve of their behavior……but we let them choose for themselves. We just do not want this lifestyle taught in schools and other venues as mainstream behavior.
The posters here claim to believe that any opponent to their “civil right” is a bigot and hates them. What a simplistic and juvenile argument.
Finally, opponents of the LGBT lifestyle have rights too, like freedom of speech. I live in Utah too and I am not moving and I don’t have to agree with you. Let’s see some of that tolerance.
Love u all.
Oh well… Like all bigots you have to resort to name calling and exaggerations.
Personally, I find the plyg lifestyle up there in Co city/Hilldale far more perverse than the homosexuals. If the gays were having incest babies and a culture of child rape, it would be a different story.
No one is asking for your approval. The LGBT community only want equality.
Love this post, Ed. As I stated earlier, I do not care what the LGBT lifestyle is made up of, however, I do care that the hatred that comes from all this is non-stop. It will not stop, and those people who have very deep seated beliefs about traditional marriage will be prosecuted, called names, hated…That is what I see with this community. Any time someone differs in opinion they are jumped on with total disdain and disregard of the rights of those who believe it’s not a healthy lifestyle, for them and their family, anyhow. Civil rights are for everyone, quit shoving this lifestyle down my throat, or anyone else who is uncomfortable. My belief is my belief and no amount of mind games is going to change that for me. That is what all this is about. Everyone is scared of how far all this is going to go, and you people defending this tooth and nail, calling names, telling all of us what we MUST believe, are not making it any better. As mentioned, I believe civil rights for everyone, regardless of how people want to live, but also be mindful and respectful of those of us with differing beliefs. You don’t even know me, but label me as a bigot because of my religious beliefs. All you people are doing is stirring up more fear. I take offense to that. My religious beliefs are very dear and sacred to me. I am not a Mormon, but must defend their rights to also have their own beliefs. If you got to know this group of people with an open mind, you may think differently.
“Love this post, Ed.”
LOL, I think his post is a good example of right wing, tea party bigotry, with make believe “facts”. If I wanted that I’d turn on Fox news.
Funny how people in southern Utah must qualify themselves with “I’m not mormon” or “I am mormon” when making statements. Kinda like those defending or speaking against equal rights for gays saying “I’m not gay” or “I am gay”. Does association or non-association with the mormon religion quantify one’s personal belief or lifestyle? I hope not.
Dan savage fixation? Latent homosexual much? Just sayin and luv u.
Ed,
That has got to be the most uneducated responses I have ever read in my life. Nothing you said is supported by fact, or common sense. Do a little research, and come back when you have something actually based in reality and worth arguing. It’s abundantly clear that you are uneducated on the subject, biology, marriage, and the list goes on. Even so, I do want to thank you for expressing your bigotry in a fashion that has made you feel better.
Love,
Michael
P.S. I’m married, have 4 children, and live in Utah as well. I teach my children to love and respect ALL of God’s children. I do not profess to know the mind of God, but I know the teaching of his Son.
I am growing weary of being labeled a hater and a bigot because I don’t approve of the gay lifestyle. I have had many friends and clients that are gay whom I truly love and get along with well. I also don’t approve of heterosexual couples living together before they are married or people cheating on their spouses. I have many family members and friends that live in ways that I don’t approve of but I still love them and hang out with them and respect them for who they are. It is too easy to label people like me a hater or a bigot. It takes no thought or introspection to make blanket statements like that. It’s sometimes comical when posters to this site and others in one sentence cry about being treated unfairly and then in the next sentence they give the same treatment to people like me.
Ah, but you do see that the folks “living in sin” still have the opportunity, the freedom, the liberty, to get married if they choose, no? And the folks cheating on their spouses are already married, yes? They’re destroying the sanctity of marriage after entering into it!
Can I assume you’ll proudly support legislation prohibiting people from living together before marriage? Civil penalties for adultery? If not those, why the big fuss over two people, of whatever gender, getting married?
I for one hope that folks will be free to voice their disdain and disapproval of gays and lesbians, just like racists and anti-semites can still voice their disapproval of blacks and jews, or socialists can voice their disapproval of capitalists, or atheists can voice their disapproval of the religious. I only hope that there is where their power will end and that they will not be able to legally bar two consenting adults (of any gender, race, religion, economic model!) from entering into contractual arrangements with the state in the same way any two heterosexual citizens can.
I think the government should get out of the marriage business and provide civil union opportunities for couples of whatever persuasion. Let the churches perform marriage ceremonies for whomever they fancy.
Indeed. So why the animus over same-sex marriage? No church will be forced to perform these ceremonies if they don’t want to, in the same way a Catholic church does not have to marry a Muslim and Hindu.
I’ve met mormons who’ve been married/divorced as many as 8 times. That doesn’t include any extramarital or premarital affairs they’ve enjoyed. Met mormons who apparently got married for sex, for their marriages lasted just a few weeks, long enough to douse their sexual lust. There is no one man/one woman aspect with mormons. They worshiped church leaders who had harems of women and little girls and even preyed on wives of other men.
James, nobody is encouraging you to be homosexual. now in utah, mormons pressure non-mormons to become mormon else get rejected from opportunities for which there should be equality for all, not just for mormons.
‘Shelve’ the issue, not ‘shelf’ (sic) it.
Hyland asks a reasonable question — Why the virulent , visceral opposition to anti-discrimination legislation in Utah? He then suggests two possible answers. First, a negative impact on the pending litigation regarding same-sex marriage, which is the reason given by our Lords and Masters in SLC.. That makes no sense to me. It seems that refusing to even consider the anti-discrimination legislation is more likely to be thought of as indicating animus towards the LGBT community than would passing the legislation. Hyland then offers a second possible answer, which he seems to prefer, that of simple intolerance on the part of members of the LDS church. Numerous commentors have taken strong exception to that answer. To them I ask — if the answer to Hyland’s question is not religion-based intolerance, what is the answer ??
I oppose the legislation mainly because of the diminution of the rights of business and property owners. I would reconsider my opposition if something more than anecdotal evidence was presented which shows a serious problem in Utah of discrimination against LGBTs.
Who are you, or any of us, to approve (or disapprove) of anyones lifestyle? Did someone make you the spokesperson for the rest of humanity? You don’t get to pick who another individual dates, loves, or marries. Just because someone is gay, does not make them a predator, a home-wrecker, or whatever else you have conjured up in your self-righteous mind. They are people – just like you and me. And are free from your judgment. And saying I have a gay friend…yada yada yada, is like saying I have a “black” friend. Who cares? Does that somehow give you the right to pass judgement on how they live – come on? Have a look at the divorce rate in America . . . better yet, look at the divorce rate of Utah. Seriously, marriage is no more sacred than getting my car registered! It’s the commitment of the individuals that means something. Sick to death of fake christian bigots wrapping their hate up in BS reasoning! Their is no gay agenda – it’s people (Americans, humans, our brothers and sisters) fighting for something they should not have to fight for!
Janet, the people that live across your street just kitty corner from your neighbors are gay and the ones next to them are Catholic. You should be very afraid “Sister”. Move along.
The issue here for this article is not about the LGTB community having their rights taken away by the LDS church. What the article is about is the rights of a home/property owner being taken away. The writer tries to make the problem about sex and in truth is isn’t. I have never seen one rental application that asks if the individual wanting to rent a property what goes on in their bedroom. You really want the right to claim persecution when a property owner decides they don’t want to do business with you. You want to be able to say it is because of the decisions you made for your life you want the government to come in and strip the rights of those that have worked to earn what they have so they can rent out their property to those they feel will best protect their investment. This issue has nothing to do with the Book of Mormon or the LDS church. You want someone to blame for your problems and in this case you picked something that has nothing to do with your issue. Not every landlord in this state is LDS. Your switch and bait article is a cheep trick to discriminate against a specific group of people. What a waste of everyone’s time.
I absolutely love this post, Lady K. I am so tired of the baiting that goes on. These posts went way off kilter and a lot of hatred toward one group of people came about. Thank you for pointing that out and bringing us back.
Blah blah blah. Property rights blah blah blah. What the right-wingers forget is that they have to live in a society with other people, but they just cling to the hatred and bigotry. Right-wingers will be on the losing side of history but they will cling to the hatred til the end.
Hmm wasn’t it a white Mormon republican man that introduced the tabled bill? Get the facts before you sterotype and generalize your hate toward religion and race.
Thank you, Fred. I get so weary of the stereotyping and hating of a group when they don’t even know the individual.
If it was ,Fred, his Church would not be happy with him at all.
Don’t worry Dallas, the church has already capitulated on its ‘sacred’ doctrines before, in order to fall into acceptance with social trends.
They are already working on the acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle, but they have to be smart about it. If they just throw out their principles all at once they’ll lose membership. They gotta ease into it. Give them some time.
7 to 10 years and they’ll be in lockstep with the rest of the country.
By the way, the slave culture in Colorado City has nothing to do with polygamy and everything to do with man worship.
Uniformed bigotry continues on display in these comments. Here is how the LDS church really feels about this legislation.
http://www.glaad.org/2009/11/13/mormons-voice-support-for-salt-lake-city-anti-discrimination-law
Uninformed bigotry is on display in the comment section here. This is what the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS really said about this legislation.
http://www.glaad.org/2009/11/13/mormons-voice-support-for-salt-lake-city-anti-discrimination-law
I am LDS and I support both Urquhart’s bill and legalizing gay marriage. I don’t want to be on the wrong side of history when it comes to people’s rights. I have my own mind and think for myself and hopefully that will become a more common practice among all religous individuals.
Prop 8 is how the LDS Church really feels…
I have a question for those conservatives and constitutionalists who may come across this aging thread. Actually have a couple?
1.) Ive heard the argument that the founding fathers intended this nation to be Christian. If that was true, why did they write an amendment that specifically guaranteed freedom of religion? Here is the first amendment:
U.S. Constitution › First Amendment
First Amendment
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
2.) While it’s true that the Bible does call homosexuality a in In Genesis, leviticus and Romans (Verses posted below), the Bible also calls out “So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets” (Matthew 7:12) None of the legal benefits of marriage are religious based. US Attorney General Eric Holder, The Supreme Court and many Federal and municipal Magistrates including those who hold such positions in heavily religious states like Oklahoma, Texas and Utah have ruled or come out in favor of Gay Marriage. Last year the Supreme Court ruled in a 5-4 vote to overturn the part of the Defense of Marriage Act(DOMA) that barred legally married married same sex couple from enjoying the legal benefits of marriage on the Federal Level. The Supreme Court refused to rule on California’s Proposition 8 leaving the lower courts ruling in favor of such a marriages untouched. I digress. Here is my question:
I think it’s pretty obvious when you read the first amendment that this nation was not intended to be a wholly Christian nation. Ive heard many of you say that by allowing gay marriage, we are giving homosexual special rights, going against the founding fathers and God. I will concede the argument that Homosexuality is a sin and that many if not all of the founding fathers were Christian men. Here ar my questions:
If God did not intend for Homosexuals to exist then why do they? Some animals are Homosexual too. Why are they here?
How is Gay marriage infringing on your beliefs? How dopes someone else’s marriage or relationship affect you?
How are homosexuals asking for special rights and entitlements when they are only asking for rights and entitlements that you already enjoy and have nothing to do with what religion you are?
If God says, in Matthew “So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets”. Why are you doing the exact opposite by opposing gay marriage? Do you want you rights and entitlments that have nothing to do with religion taken away? Are you really willing to give those rights and entitlments? If not, and I bet you aren’t, Then why are you unwilling to follow Gods law “…do to others what you would have them do to you”?
Here are the Verses against homosexuality I found:
Lev 18:22-23 “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.”
Lev 20:13 “If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death.”
1 Cor 6:9 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals”
1 Tim 1:9-10 “realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers”
Rom 1:26-27 “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.”
Lev 18:22-23 “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.”
Your thoughtful response is appreciated. Thank you.
~Simone Says~
I am NOT LDS,but I am a christian.MY religion which I adhere to and will die defending my right to adhere to,says homosexuality is a sin.Thats all I need to know on the subject.I don’t care what anyone says,and you can talk until you are blue in the face,you are not going to change ANYTHING with me.I believe in christ that he was the son of god.I will die for christ.My faith is something I believe with all my heart.I am not perfect,I have made mistakes and have repented.I am not a passive christian/I would call myself a vengeful christian.I would gladly take up a sword for christ and may be called on to do so one day.I do believe however that you have the right just as I do to believe what you want to believe.
Don’t call me a bigot,racist,homophobe etc.Thats all bullshit and shows as much of a lack of acceptance of ones personal beliefs on your part as you are claiming towards christians.
I also believe people have free will and should have the freedom to engage in adult,non harmful sexual beliefs(within boundaries-common sense).You should have the right to marry who you want,engage in sexual activity with other consenting adults of your choice(again common sense).
I believe a business should have the right to refuse service based on religious beliefs.I would shut down my business before I would let the government or any
activist group tell me who I HAD to serve.I don’t see LGBT groups as seeking equality.I see them seeking dominance,the same as I see atheist groups doing.Equality was never the issue.They want to ram it down your throat.For true christians,you will NEVER ram it down and make it stick.It would be in opposition to EVERYTHING they believe in.So quit trying.Practice the acceptance of personal beliefs that you want applied to you.You may find MANY vengeful christians,not passive ones.Many christians that are NOT willing to just roll over and die and “turn the other cheek”.Here is one that is NOT going down with out a fight.Thats my two cents.Like it or not I don’t care.