Love reigns louder at St. George gay pride celebration

ST. GEORGE – Hundreds of members of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community along with supporters and allies painted the town rainbow as they gathered at Vernon Worthen park in St. George Saturday for the first official gay pride event and celebration held in the city.

Attendees of the gay pride celebration dressed in rainbow clothing and enjoyed an evening at Vernon Worthen Park, St. George, Utah, June 25, 2016 | Photo by Hollie Reina, St. George News
Attendees of the gay pride celebration dressed in rainbow clothing and enjoyed an evening at Vernon Worthen Park, St. George, Utah, June 25, 2016 | Photo by Hollie Reina, St. George News

June is designated as Gay Pride Month for the LGBT community and celebrations are held throughout the United States and in parts of the world to honor the impact that lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender individuals have had and will continue to have on history.

While several celebrations centered around pride month have been held in Southern Utah, including one held in Springdale about six years ago and an informal potluck held on July 3, 2015, at Sandtown Park on Bluff Street, this year’s event marks the first official St. George Gay Pride.

The idea for the event was sparked by two high school students who felt St. George should have a gay pride celebration. Spurred on by the recent shooting at a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida, that killed 49 people and injured 53 others, the young duo reached out to area LGBT activists to help bring the event together.

One of the organizers, Sam, whose last name has been withheld for safety and privacy reasons, said that the shooting in Orlando really hurt the community and added that this event was really needed.

Revelers at the St. George gay pride event participate in a conga line parade at Vernon Worthen Park, St. George, Utah, June 25, 2016 | Photo by Hollie Reina, St. George News
Revelers at the St. George gay pride event participate in a conga line parade at Vernon Worthen Park, St. George, Utah, June 25, 2016 | Photo by Hollie Reina, St. George News

From planning to fruition, organizers had about 10 days to secure the needed permits to hold the event at Vernon Worthen Park, create a lineup of entertainment and solicit volunteers to help, but the event came together in spectacular fashion, drawing a large crowd of supporters who came to celebrate their diversity in a safe and welcoming space.

Elise West, one of the event organizers and a co-chair for the Equality Utah Celebration, which has been held annually for the past six years in Southern Utah, said that she, along with fellow Equality Utah Celebration co-chair Linda Stay were asked to help because of their expertise in organizing events and gatherings.

“As far as the pride event here, the pride festival, we were contacted to see if we could help and offer our expertise since we love to throw happy parties,” West said. “So we offered our support and it’s been pretty much nonstop for the last 10 days from six in the morning until midnight and beyond and we knew that it was going to be very, very important to the community.”

Stay and West were joined by a group of volunteer organizers including Cody Ham, whom West and Stay credit with taking the lead on the organization  who shared the same passion for seeing the St. George gay pride event be realized on such short notice

This event, really, I think it’s miraculous,” Stay said. “I don’t think it’s ever been done to pull together a pride event, especially at this magnitude, in 10 days.”

The large turnout surprised event organizers who had originally estimated a crowd of around 200 people. But as the event drew nearer, West said, they watched as the Facebook event page was shared nearly 1,000 times and over 500 people said they planned on attending.

Revelers at the St. George gay pride event participate in a conga line parade at Vernon Worthen Park, St. George, Utah, June 25, 2016 | Photo by Mori Kessler, St. George News
Revelers at the St. George gay pride event participate in a conga line parade at Vernon Worthen Park, St. George, Utah, June 25, 2016 | Photo by Mori Kessler, St. George News

The event was free to attend but donations were accepted and items such as buttons and bracelets were sold to cover expenses. Money raised beyond the expenses of the event are going to be donated to the new LGBTQIA – which generally refers to the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer or questioning, intersex and asexual community – Resource Center which is set to open on the Dixie State University campus in August.

The center is part of the Multicultural Inclusion Center and will be located in the Browning Building.

“Our purpose is to be a resource for DSU students, faculty and staff,” Barrett Beck, the LGBTQIA community specialist said adding that they will first and foremost be a resource for the students who may be living openly for the fist time.

Beck said the new facility will provide education and mentors and that the money donated from the gay pride event will go directly toward establishing a scholarship fund for LGBT students.

#LoveLouder

On June 12, after hearing of the tragic events of Orlando, Stay and West organized a candlelight vigil, also held in Vernon Worthen park, to honor the victims and to provide a safe space for the LGBT community and their allies to come together to mourn the events and find healing through a connection to each other.

From that event grew the catchphrase and social media hashtag #LoveLouder, a play on the more well-known phrase used by proponents of equality; “love wins.”

For organizers and attendees of the gay pride event, love was the prevailing theme; loving diversity, choosing love over fear, as well as self-love and acceptance.

“Love is everywhere,” Amanda Barrick, Stay’s daughter said, “and that’s all that matters is that we’re here and we’re going to love who we choose to love and that’s it.”

At the celebration a moment of silence was observed and 102 balloons were released to honor all 102 victims, those who were killed or injured, of the Orlando attack.

The vigil also featured music, food trucks, games, live entertainment and a conga line parade that saw hundreds of people dancing and enjoying themselves in the park.

“We’re not going to give our energy to fear,” Stay said. “We’re going to give it to more love.”

Click on photo to enlarge it, then use your left-right arrow keys to cycle through the gallery. 

Email: hreina@stgnews.com

Twitter: @STGnews

Copyright St. George News, SaintGeorgeUtah.com LLC, 2016, all rights reserved.

 

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69 Comments

  • .... June 26, 2016 at 9:37 am

    look at all them people having a good time and not having two listen two dumbob the Zionist expert lmao !

  • ladybugavenger June 26, 2016 at 12:38 pm

    Celebrate perversion with rainbows and lollipops and call it love (instead of what it is – lust) woohooooo (did you like that “theone”?)

    • ladybugavenger June 26, 2016 at 7:43 pm

      Theone doesn’t like me he calls me a hater because I oppose gay marriage and man on man sex and women on women sex. And I called it like it is: a group of people that don’t believe in God.

      theone called me disgusting for my views.

      • godisdead June 26, 2016 at 11:57 pm

        It’s pretty simple. If you oppose gay sex – don’t have gay sex. When you “speak” for your hateful god, calling people “perverts”, there are consequences. You are spreading hate – you are a hater, a bigot, and certainly not a Christian.
        You can pull any type of interpretation of the bible out of your primary orifice, but what you seem to forget is the simplest of Jesus’s teachings – the golden rule. Look it up, you obviously don’t know what it is.

      • theone June 27, 2016 at 12:10 pm

        How do you know they don’t believe in god? Spouting off with unsubstantiated nonsense like that proves all you have in your heart is hate.
        This god of yours seems to make/want you to hate people who are different than you so I’m going to suggest you find a new god to worship, you know one with love, after all there’s 4,200 gods for you to choose from.

        I have your new handle in mind, ladythug.
        Love wins!!!!

    • godisdead June 26, 2016 at 8:11 pm

      You have NO clue about this. Lust is all it is? These people are no different from you, EXCEPT they are comfortable with who they are, they don’t have a closed mind, and they are not bigots about sexual orientation. By you statement, I’m sure they know more about love than you as well.
      It’s great that you claim to speak for your god all the time, but i’d like you to use common sense and science instead of fairy tales.

      • ladybugavenger June 26, 2016 at 10:31 pm

        I need not prove anything to you. Have a good week godisdead.

        • .... June 28, 2016 at 1:47 pm

          You have a good weekend ladybug ☆☆☆☆☆

    • Rhiannon June 27, 2016 at 5:58 pm

      So you’re calling Asexual, Demisexual, etc is all ‘lust’, but all of the Heterosexual teenagers running almost purely on hormones, getting pregnant in school, getting married straight out of High School, or after only two months of dating…that’s true love?

      My Wife and I have been together over a decade, now. Long after the hormones have cooled, we still can’t imagine our lives without each other. If you cannot look at another persons successful relationship without sexualizing it, the problem is YOU, not us.

  • Bob June 26, 2016 at 2:09 pm

    well, looks like they (the gays) managed to keep most of their clothes on. that’s a change from their usual celebration of perversion…

    • godisdead June 26, 2016 at 8:18 pm

      You are obviously ashamed of your body because your mom told you it was disgusting and dirty. Thank goodness there are people in society, proud to display their god’s creation.
      Come on bob. You are the one with the perverted dirty mind. Get over it. Skin can be beautiful!
      Your mom a was probably right about you though – disgusting.

    • .... June 28, 2016 at 1:49 pm

      Awwww poor dumbob is upset because he didn’t get to see any naked guy’s ! LMAO. !

  • 42214 June 26, 2016 at 4:01 pm

    Looks like the Democratic National Convention

  • NickDanger June 26, 2016 at 4:14 pm

    Sorry but I’m just not buying in. Homosexuality is a sin, clearly, Biblically. Not everyone has to believe or follow Biblical teachings, but societies that condone homosexuality always receive a full portion of God’s wrath. Look what’s happening right now to Great Britain, where this kind of thing has been happening for a long, long time. The USA is next.

    I stand opposed, vote opposed, and always will. I acknowledge that in a democracy, the majority must have their way. But this festival celebrating sin is an abomination, and it does not bode well for St. George. You can call it love if you want. God calls it “degrading passion.”

    • godisdead June 26, 2016 at 8:31 pm

      Another kook that speaks for god. If your God is punishing Great Britain for acknowledging that homosexuality is a natural part of human existence, let’s kick your gods a..*. Your god is a hateful, evil, god. Your god doesn’t deserve exaltation.
      God created all human beings – including gays (etc.), who were born “that way”. I like the real God who loves his creations.
      You, nickdanger, are just another nut job afraid of reality, who verbally attacks a minority group, because of your fear, ignorance, and bigotry.
      My God teaches love. Your god teaches hate. Well – my God can kick your god’s a..*, so there.
      *Ed. ellipses

      • ladybugavenger June 26, 2016 at 10:35 pm

        Have you heard of Jesus? He died for your sin so you wouldn’t die in your sin. Now that’s love. Jesus loves you

        • 42214 June 27, 2016 at 3:34 pm

          Yes I know, for the Bible tells me so. Bla Bla Bla

        • Rhiannon June 27, 2016 at 6:03 pm

          Jesus? The guy that said ‘Love thy Neighbor’, fed a whole lot of people without requiring them to piss in a cup, told a wealthy prince that the only way to follow God is to give up all of his riches to the poor, and yet never once mentioned anything about homosexuality or gender roles, ever? At all? That guy?

          How do you think he feels about you using his name to spread hate about a subject he never once mentioned, but ignore all of the stuff he DID mention?

      • .... June 27, 2016 at 12:35 am

        Ha Ha you got edited !!!

      • NickDanger June 27, 2016 at 11:30 am

        Funny how homosexuals, and other people who want to do whatever they want to do no matter what the Bible says about it, always accuse Christians of “trying to speak for God.”

        God speaks for himself, quite plainly. Is it hard for you to hear it, is that why you want to blame the messenger instead of the message? Is that why I’m a “kook,” instead of just someone who has a different opinion than yours?

        Factually, it’s not a matter of opinion. You do not have a God, except in your own head. God rejects you outright, and will do so in a very final manner ultimately, because you are unrepentant about your sin. Homosexuality is not some gray area in the Bible, it is clearly displeasing to God and therefore a sin. God had a plan for families, and he insists we follow it. Personally I’d be surprised if you’d ever even read the Bible. Certainly you haven’t done so with any eye to altering your behavior from “exactly what you want to do” to “what God commands you to do.”

        It’s actually just fine with me that you are a homosexual. We all have choices to make. I don’t mind either you, or your behavior. What I do mind is that my children are forced to view it in the form of a parade with balloons and rainbows, and forced to accept it as normal, when in fact it is somewhere in the vicinity of either a mental illness or just a willful sin.

        BTW, I’m not sure who you think you’re talking to here, but there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that homosexuality has a genetic cause. All such studies are easily debunked, and therefore have been debunked. The research of Simon Levay at the Salk Institute cannot be replicated, and he has ultimately had to admit himself that his finding of the so-called “gay gene” was merely an anomaly.

        The Baily & Pillard “twins” study failed to account for environment in any way whatsoever – where two identical twins were both homosexual, they were also raised in the same household. This was unaccounted for, thereby voiding the study altogether. In fact, since nowhere close to a 100% equivalency in twins was found, it is much more evidence that there is no genetic cause than that there is – genetics don’t leave any room for choice.

        Dean Hamer at the National Cancer Institute claimed to have found a chromosomal cause in the early 90’s, but uh oh, failed to include a heterosexual control group, thus voiding HIS findings on review.

        There are opinions, but in fact no “gay gene” has been found. No claim to have found it has withstood the test of hypothesis into theory, theory into publication, and peer review into scientific fact or consensus. Until/unless this happens, homosexuality is merely a behavior, no more deserving of any particular Civil Rights consideration than alcoholism or thievery.

        I suggest to you, sir, that before you attempt to confront someone in an insulting manner on this subject, you consider actually educating yourself about it first. Meanwhile, enjoy your behavioral perversion, as society has decided you can. Just don’t expect those of us who know what it actually represents to be sympathetic to your personal desire to engage in degrading passions.

        • godisdead June 27, 2016 at 3:57 pm

          Well nick. You seem to know so much about me, and the bible, but you’re wrong again.
          The words in your bible have been changed over the millennia. What’s the real message? It’s left to interpretation.
          You want to cite scientific studies? Let’s see some unbiased science about the existence of YOUR god. The answer, of course, is that your god doesn’t exist in reality. Maybe in your mind, but there is NO evidence your god exists. Your faith is in a fairy tale.
          You state that you “are fine with you (me) being a homosexual”, which makes me think you’ve mistaken me for someone else (what was said on Seinfeld? Not that there’s anything wrong with that but …).
          I do know that there are too many examples of children demonstrating “gayness” early in life, which mental health professionals have concluded is NOT a mental disease, but a normal part of human nature. This is science.
          When haters like you automatically compare homosexuality to alcoholism and thievery. I hear nothing but hate.
          It’s too bad you feel insulted when your views are questioned, but how do you think people feel when you preach hate from your pulpit?

          • NickDanger June 27, 2016 at 6:00 pm

            I’ll gladly field that totally unattributed retort, godisdead.

            Let’s be frank here – you are only arguing from the viewpoint of your own personal feelings. You feel that homosexuality is genetic, that it simply can’t be helped, and that there’s nothing sinful about it, nor are there any consequences to those who support you in your homosexual endeavors. So you are presenting that as fact. You are attributing your “findings” to “mental health professionals” No such findings have been validated by the scientific community at large, however.

            It’s true enough that the American Psychiatric Association declassified homosexuality as a mental illness in 1973. But they did not do so on any scientific basis – they did it to stop protests by the gay community at their annual conventions. Even the Association of Gay & Lesbian Psychiatrists’ own website says as much. I quote directly, from AGLP.org: “The American Psychiatric Association (APA) removed homosexuality from its official Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) in 1973. This decision occurred in the context of momentous cultural changes brought on by the social protest movements of the 1950s to the 1970s: beginning with the African-American civil rights movement, then evolving on to the women’s and gay rights movements.”

            All along, homosexuals have been riding the coattail of the Civil Rights Movement in the USA – a righteous movement that has correctly asserted that people should not be discriminated against based on attributes they acquired via simple Mendelian genetics, i.e., racial characteristics.

            So you see, friend, unless it can be demonstrated that homosexuality is a genetic trait, it remains, as it always has been, a behavioral choice.

            Now let’s look at that without bringing up such obviously negative behavioral choices as alcoholism or thievery. Let’s say a person has decided that he is going to cover his head in sticky lollipops. Every day, he is going to wake up, unwrap 30 lollipops, lick them, and stick them all over his head and neck. He is determined on this point, he has suffered numerous bad consequences because of it, but it’s what he wants to do, so he’s going to do it no matter what.

            It’s not harmful to anyone really, is it? I mean, you don’t have to touch the guy’s lollipop-covered head. You don’t even have to look at it. Lollipops aren’t dangerous either. He could, theoretically, perform any number of job duties with his head covered in lollipops. So it’s basically a harmless behavioral choice on this guy’s part, though certainly not a genetically mandated one.

            Still, he can’t get a job, gets mocked everywhere he goes, and is generally avoided and shunned, by everyone. His life is a nightmare because he is so determined on the lollipops-stuck-to-the-head notion.

            Should this guy get Civil Rights protection?

            Then guess what? Neither should homosexuals.

            BTW, there is a God, godisdead. He’s the God of the Christian Bible, and his will gets done. Period. It’s not provable, though it’s certainly arguable with a much vaster preponderance of evidence on one’s side than genetically-mandated homosexuality. I could, if this were the correct forum for it, undoubtedly turn any argument you might make to the contrary upside down using simple inductive and deductive arguments from the great Christian apologists – arguments that have mostly been around for centuries. But that’s an entirely different debate.

            Or is it?

          • godisdead June 28, 2016 at 9:16 am

            You said it nick. There is NO proof that your god exists. With you, it’s all about your feelings.
            Unfortunately, your interpretation of your god’s wants, restrict basic human rights of a minority group.
            If you take your god out of the equation, you have NO argument.
            In our country, your god has no role in suppressing the rights of the LGBTQ community.
            Believe whatever you want but, speaking out publicly; blaming gays for “Brexit”, blaming gays for your prophecy of doom in our country, etc., is simply hate speach spawned from your belief in fairy tales.
            The U.S. Supreme Court has recognized this fact and acted accordingly.

        • theone June 28, 2016 at 10:16 am

          Nickdanger you have an issue with a parade? Wait a minute and lets examine that with the parade of anti gay, anti lesbian, anti women, anti sex, anti being human with a church on almost every corner, countless programs parading across our TV screens every Sunday telling you to be ashamed for being human all in the name of religion. Why do you think your form of forced dogma deserves to be out in front and shoved down my children’s throat and no one else’s is? Your moral ground is no exception. Life is diverse whether born one way or not, learn to accept it.

          • NickDanger June 28, 2016 at 1:31 pm

            Conflating Sunday morning television and the USA’s Christian roots as still evidenced by all those (let’s be honest, mostly empty) churches on every corner, with a public celebration of sinful behavior that mocks God’s commands and is replete with all the trappings of a 7-year-old’s birthday party, is mere rhetoric, theone.

            Being homosexual does not equal being human any more than being Christian does. We are all human. Using your chain of reasoning, I could easily maintain that such universally-despised figures as Hitler, Stalin, and Charles Manson had nothing of which to be ashamed. After all, they were only being human, yes?

            I suggest to you that you might consider being something more than just human. What we are actually, friend, are spiritual beings temporarily contending with a physical reality, not vice versa. That’s why no amount of sinful behavior will ever satisfy that elusive longing you have always felt for something more substantial than mere humanity. Nothing short of achieving moral accord and full acceptance by your creator and true father – via intellectual acceptance of God’s reality, genuine repentance of the sinful nature that separates you from God’s love, and true knowledge of God’s will obtained by study of his testament to mankind – will ever fill that emptiness you feel during those moments of real clarity in the deep of a sleepless night.

            As an aside, in my opinion, following a philosophy in which the only principle is “There are no principles” brings one much closer to being sub-human than human.

          • theone June 28, 2016 at 4:17 pm

            Bla Bla Bla is all I hear when you invoke god as a real thing. Gays aren’t hurting anyone as did the people you compared with leaving you with a lame analogy. I don’t care if you agree with a persons lifestyle or not, I do care that you intend to spread hate through the lifestyle you choose. I’ve got news for you, god is not real but the hate you share is.

          • NickDanger June 28, 2016 at 10:13 pm

            Not sure I’m comfortable believing that I hate you, theone. Here’s a good test for whether any kind of verbal repartee is hate or not: If you absolutely believed everything I told you, and did exactly what I encouraged you to do, would you be better off for it? Or would you be trying to contort your body into a physically impossible solo sex position?

            In this case, you’d be infinitely better off.

            Now I leave you with 3 simple words, theone. Go…save yourself!

      • ladybugavenger June 27, 2016 at 6:27 pm

        Who is your god you speak of? Satan?

        • godisdead June 28, 2016 at 9:26 am

          You said it nick. There is NO proof that your god exists. With you, it’s all about your feelings.
          Unfortunately, your interpretation of your god’s wants, restrict basic human rights of a minority group.
          If you take your god out of the equation, you have NO argument.
          In our country, your god has no role in suppressing the rights of the LGBTQ community.
          Believe whatever you want but, speaking out publicly; blaming gays for “Brexit”, blaming gays for your prophecy of doom in our country, etc., is simply hate speach spawned from your belief in fairy tales.
          The U.S. Supreme Court has recognized this fact and acted accordingly.

          • NickDanger June 28, 2016 at 11:30 am

            I don’t think you really want to have that conversation, godisdead. Like so many amateur philosophers, you are making the logical error of equating “absolute proof” with “preponderance of evidence.” If you were more educated on this matter, I’d be happy to get into the concepts of tripartite analysis as it relates to justified true belief. But in this case, I think that would be a waste of both our time.

            Let it be enough said that A) Christianity is arguable, and the debate can be, and has been, won, numerous times – at the expense of the world’s foremost atheist public intellectuals: Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, etc. And B) Christianity is undeniably and inextricably intertwined with the history of all Western civilization. Neither you or I would be here right now having this conversation had Christianity never existed.

            To break that down to bare bones for you: God can be proved well beyond an acceptable degree of certitude in any court of law or stage of debate, and his existence cannot be ignored except at the peril of simultaneously ignoring the entire anatomy of the culture.

            Once having established “God’s existence” as a justified true belief, and the historicity of the Bible as valid, one can easily proceed to a supplemental argument that God does rule the fate of nations on this planet, and that rampant homosexuality is the true root cause of many societies’ otherwise inexplicable deficiencies and problems.

            The U.S. Supreme Court is an esteemed body indeed, comprised of the finest legal minds in the nation. It evaluates issues of public interest down to the most minute detail, and frequently composes elegant and well-considered decisions on matters that might otherwise confound the wise and stupefy the intellectual elite. It is also, by its very nature, a secular body, entrusted by society to engage these matters without consulting religious authority.

            Your freedom to engage in homosexuality is indeed the will of the people. It doesn’t take very long to figure out that even though the USA is traditionally a Christian nation, most of its citizens aren’t Christians anymore, and put very little value on Biblical teachings. “Why not?” is most people’s response to the gay marriage issue.

            I could give the a reason. But they wouldn’t be interested.

            So no one is arguing that you aren’t entitled to your legal right to engage in perverse behavior. In a democracy, no one gets everything they want. But some of us are not going to let you deceive society-at-large into believing that you are suddenly a normative social influence. What you actually are is a tiny percentage of the population with highly-unbalanced access to the media because of all the homosexuals in Hollywood, who have, in turn, an unbalanced influence on public opinion here in the media-saturated quagmire some are calling the Information Age.

            I suggest, godisdead, that you simply walk away with the win. You won’t though. Because the win was never what you and your fellows wanted – you’ve always had the freedom to practice your perversion without hindrance in the modern era.

            You’ll never admit it, but what you really want is for people like me – people with an actual moral foundation who are leading a principled life – to tell you all this is just fine. You want your father to tell you that there’s nothing wrong with you, that it’s the principles themselves that are wrong.

            Well, there is something wrong with you. The principles are not wrong. And you may as well prepare for a lifetime of outrage and feigned contempt if you intend to confront every fundamental Christian you encounter with your tissue of lies.

        • godisdead June 28, 2016 at 10:35 am

          Some people might be offended when accused of worshipping satan. Personally, I see satan’s influence among many in the Christian fringes. For them, and satan, it’s hate and oppression.

  • Henry June 26, 2016 at 7:43 pm

    Nice photo of the Democratic candidate for the Utah Senate. Did anyone ask her how she feels about her party’s Presidential nominee receiving $10-25 million from Saudi Arabia, where homosexual acts are punishable by death (via stoning)?

  • homer498 June 26, 2016 at 8:05 pm

    Sorry is right “Dickdanger”. In fact, you can’t even prove that something called a “Sin” factually, or actually, really exists! You’re “religion” is most likely a mental defect with delusions that lead you to think you know the mind of your “one & only”, god. The world will be a better place when religion is finally treated for the disease it is and eradicated with a vaccine of logic & reason; especially yours. Until then, try and be nice, and keep your mental illness “in the closet” where it belongs. Who cares if the gay club wants a parade in the park, you weren’t invited.

  • Common Sense June 27, 2016 at 6:50 am

    Whats God got to do with it?

    • 42214 June 27, 2016 at 7:23 pm

      Is it 30% cheaper to be gay in St George?

  • Denise June 27, 2016 at 8:16 am

    religious level? okay here goes. “I have come to do away with the old law, and give you a new commandment,Love one Another,” Sorry couldn’t resist pulling the Jesus card.But had you listened to the prompting of the Holy Spirit…….we would not be having this adversarial toned comment section against an even logical solution to global population increase, or orphaned and abandoned children. Samezees are part of God’s Eternal creation.

  • pakundo June 27, 2016 at 11:27 am

    I don’t see representation from the honorable members of the bestiality and pedophilia communities–what a bunch of haters!

  • Bob June 27, 2016 at 12:39 pm

    LOL, “godisdead” got triggered, hard. may be time to move to san francisco, buddy.

    • godisdead June 27, 2016 at 6:12 pm

      Bob. Is this your answer to anyone who has a different opinion than you (if you don’t like it, move)?
      What a weak answer from a weak mind.
      Instead of welcoming a valuable asset to our community, the religious right spews their hate toward them. Why? Because they don’t understand. They grasp at interpretations of the Bible, which was written by numerous men, not a diety.
      I am just one of many, who are tired of people using their religion to bully, shame, and hate this minority.

      • Bob June 28, 2016 at 12:25 pm

        our local circus clown here doesn’t get that not everyone upset with gay degeneracy are xtians. I’m not…

        • .... June 28, 2016 at 1:59 pm

          Yes you are ! HA HA HA HA HA HA how do I do it ! eh ?

      • .... June 28, 2016 at 2:05 pm

        Don’t mind dumbob he’s a Zionist expert and also an expert on politics and Land Rovers lmao ! He knows everything ( except for where his meds are ) HA ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha now that’s funny !

    • NickDanger June 27, 2016 at 7:50 pm

      That just won’t do, Bob. It’s not freedom they want. They already have that, yet the din of their endless protesting is still constantly ringing in the ears of American Christians who refuse to compromise their religious conviction that homosexuality is not only a sin, but that it is also Biblically clear that God punishes entire societies where it is widely practiced and condoned.

      What they want is for those of us who are standing firm in our beliefs to bend to their collective will. At this point, since they now have gay marriage, protected adoption, protection against workplace discrimination or expulsion from the military, protection against anyone even daring to speak against their behavior in a public forum via mockery and accusations of anachronistic behavior, and in fact are now treated as some kind of affirmative-action subclass, no further protections even being legally possible, it’s safe to assume that what they really want are the hearts and minds of America’s fundamental Christians.

      Sadly, some are giving it to them.

      • Bob June 28, 2016 at 12:22 pm

        i think what they really want is an end to any kind of morality. i think they won’t rest until it is legal and socially acceptable for gay men to run around naked in the streets and have their gay relations in public. if u vist san francisco u can actually see such things, i kid u not.

        • .... June 28, 2016 at 2:08 pm

          It’s San Francisco . not san francisco .and it’s you not u and it’s I not i will dumbob ever learn ? LOL ! …

    • .... June 28, 2016 at 1:57 pm

      It’s San Francisco ! not san francisco. .will dumbob ever learn ! and calling godisdead buddy LMAO ! so you going to San Francisco with him ROFLMAO ! Ha ha ha ha ha ha that’s some funny stuff right there !!!!

  • ladybugavenger June 27, 2016 at 6:05 pm

    I know you probably won’t believe this but I don’t like organized religion. Religion hasn’t done anything for me. So when I say God or Jesus, I’m not talking about religion. You all have a nice week.

    I’m against meth- but I don’t hate meth addicts
    I’m against gay marriage- but I don’t hate gays
    I’m against illegal immigration- but I don’t hate Mexicans

    The list goes on….so come on now. Let’s have a BBQ.

    I feel a lot of hate from people that say I hate.

  • ladybugavenger June 27, 2016 at 6:44 pm

    godisdead and others- not one time has someone said, ladybug you are entitled to feel how you feel but we still love you…..I have not received that from any of you so don’t talk to me about how loving you all are, all you have done is hate me.

    • Rhiannon June 28, 2016 at 10:33 am

      You’re not getting murdered or having your freedoms stripped from you because you “feel how you feel”. Do you realize that Transgender Americans account for only 0.3% of the population, but nearly twice that for targets of Murder and other violent crimes? And not only are 50% of all Transgender people likely to be raped in their lifetime(compared to half that for a Cis Woman, not even worth mentioning for a Cis Male), crimes against Transgender individuals often get a lesser charge, because it’s acceptable to say that strangling and bludgeoning a woman for 4 hours with a break halfway through to drive off and get shovels and pickaxes was a legitimate panic response.

      But, no, sit aside and call us all perverts who celebrate lust and worship Satan, who do not believe in God or know Jesus. You keep saying that you love us, and that Christ loves us…but the Love Christ knows and the love that you know, are different.

      1 Corinthians 13 5:
      5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs

      You blast us with your vitriol and hate, and then tell us you love us. Right. Okay, great representation. In Matthew 7, Christ said that “By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them(verses 16-20).” You cannot claim to grow love and hate on the same Branch, ladybug. For those that attempt to do so, Christ also said; “Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”(Matthew 7:23)

      You’re building on some pretty silty sands there, ladybug. Might want to see about that beam in your eye before you tell us about a couple of motes.

      • ladybugavenger June 28, 2016 at 12:43 pm

        Oh ok, you’re all of a sudden gonna reference bible verses. The beam is out of my eye. In not gay!

        • Rhiannon June 28, 2016 at 3:49 pm

          Nor am I – I’m Lesbian! But you have been spewing hate and vitriol by laying judgement on those that do not follow Christ and are most certainly not held under the yoke of the Old Testament.

          You, however, have called on Christ several times. You have referenced God, and you have called me and mine lustful Satan worshiping perverts. It is not those that have not sinned in a specific way that Christ called on to lay down their sins, He didn’t tell those at the city gates that only those who had been Adulterers to lay down their stones, so that the thieves, liars, idol worshipers and…ignorant, vitriolic hate spewing people could cast their stones.

          John 8:3-8
          3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women.Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap,in order to have a basis for accusing him.

          But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

          Spoiler alert: They didn’t throw stones at her. You have no basis to call me lustful, perverted, or a worshiper of Satan. And yet, you did. You called many of my friends, the family who stood by my side and held me up when my own blood would not, these poisonous, hateful slanders. You maligned the name of my Brother, who was beaten and abused by his heterosexual mother while his Church and Bishop stood aside, and did not help. His Husband, who is a still serving in the US Army, but still afraid to come out because of the lashout from bigoted heterosexuals in higher rates and ranks. My Sister who had to leave the Army when she was molested by her heterosexual superior NCO, and discharged for reporting it because she is Transgender. Of my sister Gwen in Southern California who was strangled and beaten to death over a period of four hours and abandoned in an unmarked grave near the Sierra Nevada Mountains, and her murderers weren’t even charged with murder because they had “Panicked” when they found out that Gwen had been born with a penis.

          You spew your vitriolic hate and condemnations on me and my family, support and enforce the hate laid upon us, and then complain about how POOR YOU aren’t getting praise and cuddles and love for it. Christ himself wouldn’t bother spitting on you as he announced to your judgement that he does not know you. Go fix yourself, you wretch, and leave my family alone.

    • Rhiannon June 28, 2016 at 10:55 am

      You claim love, but your words are the foundation upon which Murders and Rapists build their reasoning for killing and raping us, for the excuses used to fire us, evict us from our homes, deny us medical care and firebomb our businesses. Do not pervert the name of love so much that you claim it is your reason for your hate.

    • theone June 28, 2016 at 12:07 pm

      You accuse people of being perverts because you don’t agree with their lifestyle and expect some love. Hahahaha show some love first and maybe you’ll get some in return.

      • ladybugavenger June 28, 2016 at 2:22 pm

        No, that’s not why I call it perversion theone, come on now.

        • theone June 28, 2016 at 4:30 pm

          It’s not perversion and some day I hope you realize that.

  • godisdead June 28, 2016 at 5:58 pm

    Nick,
    What did we learn here?
    You fancy yourself a “professional” philosopher.
    You like to use big words and try to iintimidate others by bullying others – yes, you’re the loudest mouth in the room.
    You admit there is NO “proof” your god exists.
    You love the old testament and continue to believe the outdated messages.
    Never once do you mention Jesus or the old testament.
    You enjoy blaming a group of people for all the woes in the world and attempt to rally others to your cause (reminds me of your philosopher brother, Hitler, blaming the Jews for every problem he could imagine).
    The Bible was written by numerous, fallible men, and it is open to interpretation (same for the BoM).
    You really don’t like the LGBTQ community.
    Equal rights are guaranteed by the constitution and have been upheld by Supreme Court decisions (even for the gays).
    Your religious views are guaranteed by the constitution but, another guarantee is the separation of church and state.
    A great American philosopher, Jesse Ventura, once said something like this, “religion is for the weakminded “.
    XOXOXO

    • NickDanger June 28, 2016 at 8:58 pm

      Eh, I don’t really consider myself a professional philosopher. I just happen to know the fundamental principles of philosophy, debate, logic, theology, and epistemology, whereas you, uh…don’t.

      Your hyperbolic rambling here is sadly lost on me, godisdead. But I am sorry about all those big words (hidden subtext: purchase a dictionary if you want to play big-boy-on-the-internet). Sometimes I forget that the ultimate meaning of life, the universe, and everything falls under the category of “banter” in the gay community.

      I’ll leave you with the words of the famous philosopher, Anonymous: U mad bro?

      • theone June 29, 2016 at 9:20 am

        I’ll leave you with this.

        God can’t exist because of Eric The God-Eating Magic Penguin. Since Eric is God _ Eating by definition, he has no choice but to eat God. So, if God exists, he automatically ceases to exist as a result of being eaten. Unless you can prove that Eric doesn’t exist, God doesn’t exist. Even if you can prove that Eric doesn’t exist, that same proof will also be applicable to God. There are only two possibilities – either you can prove that Eric doesn’t exist or you can’t – in both cases it logically follows that God doesn’t exist.

        • NickDanger June 29, 2016 at 10:50 am

          Very interesting argument, theone. Perhaps unbeknownst to you, you are espousing a philosophical approach called Iterative Skepticism by presenting a hypothetical syllogism which is, unfortunately, contingent on an epistemological improbability, i.e., the existence of Eric The God-Eating Magic Penguin. If I were to challenge your argument in a formal debate, you would have to provide tripartite evidence of “necessity in sensu composito” regarding Eric’s self-presenting property – a God-Eating mandate – as well as some type of inductive or deductive argument for the doxastic assumption of Eric’s existence, in order to maintain your position.

          Nonetheless, Descartes would greatly enjoy your example.

          • theone June 29, 2016 at 2:57 pm

            I’m not sure if you are this sophisticated in vocabulary or not, but if you are I’m impressed, although I think, no I’m pretty sure I saw this comment on a Reddit thread. Anyway the point of Eric is not to prove it’s existence, it’s to show the belief of god is just as nonsensical. If you read the quote (I should have used quotation marks because I didn’t write it, my bad) it’s asking you to disprove Eric not the other way around. This is telling us we have no good reason to believe something you can’t prove, you know by faith alone.

            I hope you are this studied in vocabulary and use it for the better, but if you are I can’t compete on that level of a formal debate.

        • NickDanger June 29, 2016 at 7:44 pm

          I am that sophisticated in vocabulary, but I’m aware of the effect I just created by over-using my vocabulary against your argument. That was intentional, theone.

          The point I’m trying to make by being overbearing with the wordplay is this: You, and other people who find themselves unknowingly drifting through my e-transom, insist there is no God. You haven’t given the matter enough thought to make that statement. But that rebuttal doesn’t mean much to you, or anyone else. You think you’ve given the question of God’s existence quite enough thought. A demonstration is frequently in order – a demonstration that what you consider giving a matter enough thought, and what the intellectual world considers giving the matter enough thought, have about as much in common as a wet match and a raging wildfire.

          There is an entire realm of possibilities you have never considered. I know this. I’ve been well-aware throughout this entire conversation that I’ve done the reading, and you haven’t. I know the traditional cosmological argument for God’s existence, the Kalam cosmological argument, the cosmological argument from contingency, the moral argument, the Euthyphro Dilemma, the teleological argument, Dawkins’ Defense, Dawkins’ Critique, the ontological argument. I know the Bible front to back. I know the Quran, the Talmud, the Tao-Te-Ching, the Tripitakas, the Bhagavad Gita. I know what constitutes evidence, what kind of evidence it constitutes, and what is required to establish knowledge and belief.

          I can demonstrate to you that there is a God. Furthermore, I can demonstrate that he is the God of the Christian Bible. I can show you that Jesus of Nazareth lived, traveled a circuit around the Middle East that isn’t contradicted by Biblical texts, was crucified by the Romans, and rose from the grave on the 3rd day. I can do all this with a variety of sound arguments and logical devices. You’d be left at a loss for words.

          Yet in the context of this thread, you apparently expect me to accept a statement as blatantly naive as “There is no God, hahaha, it makes me laugh when you act as if there is.” Trust me, you’re not the one laughing.

          I can’t do all this because I’m super-intelligent, theone. I can do it because other people are super-intelligent, and I’ve studied their beliefs, works, methods, and arguments.

          Summary: If we did have “that conversation,” the one where I’m the Christian apologist and you’re the homosexual atheist; the one where I try to demonstrate that you’re behaving poorly and you try to act as if I’m crazy? You’d lose. I submit this information to you in the hopes that you will reconsider what you believe, and educate yourself. Nothing more. I hope you will say to yourself, “Hmm, I sure would like to be able to make that blowhard look stupid. I think I’ll study this matter further.” I hope you do.

          Have a nice day, theone.

          • theone June 30, 2016 at 9:08 am

            Wow, wow ,wow!! You are a little on the pompous side aren’t you? How can you make such assumptions that I’m gay, or don’t know enough to understand if god is real or not? First off I’m not gay, and second I have read the scriptures, and third they are total nonsense. You can present a thousand and one arguments to prove your god is real and none of them will bare any fruit. Arguments and faith are zero sum. Evidence that can be tested and observed is the only proof I’ll accept. Do you have that? You are the perfect example of why having a high IQ is not a sign of being correct. Your god is a fairy tale and your intelligence is misguiding you. Take your best shot at me with your so called proof and I’ll shove it right down your throat.

        • NickDanger June 30, 2016 at 3:56 pm

          Oh T.O. OH! You’re like the hot teenage girl in the horror movie. “Don’t go down to the basement!” the audience cries. Probably a lot bigger audience than this. Pretty sure everyone besides you and I has taken their poorly-founded, uneducated opinions and gone home.

          Which, frankly, is just as good a reason as any for me to simply ignore you. These arguments are complicated, and you’ve already admitted you’re not up to it. Maybe you remember saying that, in the post right before the one where you threatened to shove an argument down my throat? You didn’t see that rebuttal on Reddit BTW, T.O., that was my way of showing you where this conversation goes once you put “Chris ‘Hitchslap’ Hitchens For Junior Adults” back into your backpack and I take the gloves off.

          My instinct is to tell you to go fly a kite, that I’m not going to waste my time backing you into a corner for this audience of one.

          But I’ve got some time on my hands. I’ll waste a little here and now. On you. Even though I’m obviously going to have to explain how you can even begin to formulate a counter-argument as I go.

          We’ll start with something nice and easy. Let’s first establish a Justified True Belief. What is a Justified True Belief? A JTB = knowledge. To be a JTB, a piece of information must withstand tripartite analysis, and some might add a fourth requirement, but we will not go there, that is…complicated.

          So first, a JTB must be something true. “The milk is in the refrigerator.” If the milk is indeed in the refrigerator, then we have met our first condition for Justified True Belief. But truth is not knowledge. There are many truths that have never been considered by any man. There are other truths that have been considered but not known, much less believed.

          Secondly, a JTB must be believed. If the milk is in the refrigerator but you do not believe the milk is in the refrigerator, it is not a true belief, it is merely true. But if you do believe it, then it has met 2 of the 3 conditions necessary to be a Justified True Belief. True belief is not knowledge, however. One can easily believe something that is true, but have no justification for the belief. What if you have a random thought – “It’s sunny in Denver right now.” Suppose furthermore that you believe this thought, and that by pure coincidence, it IS sunny in Denver right now? So you have a true belief, but in fact you have no knowledge of the proposition, i.e., justification for the belief. What if you believe the milk is in the refrigerator, but what has actually happened is, your brother came along, drank the milk you believed was in the refrigerator, and replaced it with another gallon of milk? In this example, you have a true belief – you believe the milk is in the refrigerator, and there is milk in the refrigerator – but you have no awareness of the real justifying factors behind the truth of the belief.

          So the third element of tripartite analysis is justification. Now we get into weightier philosophical concepts such as internalism-externalism, deontology, causal theory, and several other sidebars to justification that constitute sciences of their own.

          But there’s no reason you and I can’t keep it lighter than that, T.O. For now, let’s just say that if you bought the milk, brought it home, put it in the refrigerator, closed the door, have been standing there watching the refrigerator since you did that, and have seen no one come along and remove the milk, you have justification for believing the milk is in there.

          So “The milk is in the refrigerator” is now a Justified True Belief.

          As a Christian apologist, my job would be to establish many Justified True Beliefs from many debatable resolutions before finally arriving at the final resolution, “Christianity is a Justified True Belief.”

          My first resolution would be this one: “There is a God.” I doubt I have to explain to you that establishing this resolution as a Justified True Belief is not as elementary as establishing milk in a refrigerator as a Justified True Belief. A formal debate on this matter alone, between two educated intellectuals well-versed in the structure of debate, requires several hours.

          But that is where we must start, and I anxiously anticipate you fully revealing your superior debate prowess and shoving this argument down my throat. So we’ll take it point-by-point, yes?

          For your edification, I will advise you of the argument I am using, so that you may feel free to look it up, study it, study the rebuttals of others, and thereby formulate your rebuttal. My first point is going to be the Kalam cosmological argument. As I mentioned in an earlier post, most of these arguments are centuries old.

          My first argument follows:

          Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause of its existence. The universe has a beginning of its existence.

          The past is finite. This can be evidenced in 3 ways:

          First, the concept of infinity leads to obvious logical contradictions. This is most clearly evidenced by the hypothetical paradox Hilbert’s Hotel (as an internal note to you within my point, T.O., I could now explain Hilbert’s Hotel – but since we are on the internet, I invite you instead to Google it).

          Second, infinity cannot be achieved by successive addition. i.e., if one creates a number and continually adds 1 to it, one will never reach infinity. The past grows by successive addition. Every moment that is now past was once future, but was added to the past by successive addition. If successive addition cannot achieve infinity, the past cannot be infinite.

          Third, infinity cannot be traversed. If I were to set out to an infinitely distant point, it would not just take a long time to get there, I would never arrive. If I were to count to infinity, it would not just take a long time to count to it, I would never get there. This applies to the past. If the past were infinite, the present would not just take a long time to get here, it would never get here. No matter how much time had passed, we would still be working through the infinite past. It is impossible to traverse an infinite period of time. But the present has arrived. The past has been traversed. Therefore the past is not infinite.

          So we have established that the past is finite. The universe had a beginning. If the universe had a beginning, it was created.

          And now, T.O., it’s time for your rebuttal. This is the part where you get to shove my argument down my throat. I am genuinely hoping you will post a sincere rebuttal, BTW. Another option is to concede this point and allow me to proceed to my next point.

          • theone July 1, 2016 at 12:11 pm

            Okay so you’ve established nothing, and have presented zero evidence for a god. If something is true, that truth must align with reality in order to be true. Lets take your milk in the refrigerator. You tell me there’s milk in there because you believe there is, I will go open said refrigerator to verify the claim you’ve made is true. This is in reality the only way to have justification to believe something is true.

            Example: I tell you there’s a chair in the next room, you scratch your head and wonder is this true. You want to believe my claim so you stroll on over to the next room eyes wide open and see the chair for yourself. You’ve verified my claim to be true and aligned with reality.

            Now lets say the door to that room is locked and you or no one can enter it including me. Now my claim can only stand up by endless arguments that can’t be verified in reality or truth.

            That is all you have for your god, endless arguments of unverifiable evidence.

            Having an IQ of 1 or 1000 still won’t produce a logical and ligament truth without verifiable evidence.

            You have demonstrated the typical spinning dizzying nonsense for this fairy tale god you seem to think really aligns with truth in reality.

            You’ll need to do much better in presenting sufficient evidence to bring a faith based belief to reality.

            Down your throat. 🙂

          • theone July 1, 2016 at 12:44 pm

            Oh dang, I almost forgot to address the Kalam. LOL x a million!! Now I know you’re delusional just by the mere fact you used a Ken Hammy argument.

            He came up with that all by his demented self. He thinks the universe is only 6,000 years old and man walked with Dinosaurs.
            I hope you’re not Mormon since this would make you an embarrassment to the LDS faith.

            Please come up from the basement and get some fresh air. Yes you do in fact have time on your hands if you think that’s a legitimate argument.

        • NickDanger July 2, 2016 at 9:58 am

          Can’t say I’m not disappointed, T.O. For all your talk, it sounds suspiciously like you have no rebuttal for what you yourself imply is not a legitimate rationalization. And that was just the opening argument.

          Not sure who Ken Hammy is. The Kalam argument is Islamic in origin, and the men who created it many centuries ago had names that sound a lot more like terrorists than RV salesmen.

          Anyway, we’ll just go ahead and assume that if you had an argument to make, you’d make it, T.O. Truth is, there isn’t much of an argument for atheism, and I think you’re probably just about smart enough to realize that. Still, I’m very, very disappointed in you, T.O. Reggie Jackson said, “It ain’t bragging if you can do it.” Follows that if you can’t, well…

  • theone July 2, 2016 at 12:52 pm

    Yes it is from Islamic origin to be true, but it had nothing to do with philosophizing about god until Ken Ham made it into his argument for god.
    I understand you just want to shelve this conversation as though I have no point, but lets be realistic, you have zero evidence for your god or any god.
    That’s why you can only pursue, the, blame me for having no argument. Laughable really.
    Come back when you have some evidence.
    Atheism doesn’t require an argument since it is simply the rejection of an argument for the existence of a god or any gods.
    The only argument needed is one that can prove the claim of this elusive god you claim is real.

    • NickDanger July 2, 2016 at 3:22 pm

      Sorry T.O., on review I think it’s pretty plain who posted an argument and who ate his words. Bon appetit.

  • theone July 4, 2016 at 9:06 am

    Yup, as I predicted, no evidence for your claim and out you are. Ta ta

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