St George News

Cliven Bundy during a press conference, Bunkerville, Nev., April 14, 2014 | Photo by Mori Kessler, St. George News

Right or wrong, controversy surrounding Cliven Bundy continues

ST. GEORGE – It has been a week since the standoff between the Bureau of Land Management and the supporters of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy. Since then the 67-year-old rancher has been hailed as a hero and a villain. During this last week, Cliven Bundy has called for the disarmament of “federal bureaucracies” by county sheriffs; detractors have decried the supposed use of human shields during the standoff; dead cattle and destroyed infrastructure have been found on the ranch; and one of the nation’s most powerful Democrats has labeled Bundy supporters “domestic terrorists.”

There remain two very different opinions over what lies at the heart of the ongoing conflict between the BLM and Cliven Bundy.

  • The BLM maintains the rancher has illegally grazed his cattle on public land for 20 years and owes $1 million in grazing and trespass fees. To them, the rancher stands in violation of two federal  court orders and continues to engage in illegal activity on public lands. The BLM began to round up Bundy’s cattle on April 5, but ultimately ended operations due to “grave concern about the safety of employees and members of the public.”
  • Cliven Bundy has declared that the federal government has no authority to own lands within a state according to the Constitution, and thus chooses to not recognize the federal authority. Cliven Bundy and his supporters see this as a states’ rights issue and example of government overreach and overreaction. For them, the issue is much bigger than unpaid fees and cows.

Details of the April 12 standoff and a history of the Bundy-BLM conflict can be found here.

Map detailing the location of public lands (marked in red). | Image courtesy of Arewenotastate.com

Map detailing the location of public lands (marked in red). | Image courtesy of Arewenotastate.com

So who owns the land?

According to two federal district court orders, the federal government owns the land. The BLM itself manages the land as an arm of the Department of the Interior.

In both court orders, the first from 1998 and the second from 2013, the court ruled that the federal government has jurisdiction over the land.

Despite using arguments of state sovereignty, the court declared Bundy’s claims to be “without merit,” and that “suggestions to the contrary are entirely unavailing.”

For their part, the Bundys have never claimed to own land beyond their 150-acre ranch in Bunkerville, Nev. However, they claim grazing and water rights to the land predate those of the BLM, said Ammon Bundy, a son of Cliven Bundy and family spokesman. As such, those claims should be honored, the Bundy family has said.

The Bundys argue the public land is state-owned – period. As for the federal government, Cliven Bundy refuses to recognize it in this capacity.

In the end, as much as states’ rights advocates argue otherwise, the federal government retains control of the public lands in the West. However, Utah, Wyoming, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Washington,  and Oregon are pursuing measures promoting the transfer of public lands over to state control.

The majority of the land overseen by the BLM is in the West. Nevada is over 80 percent public land, or, as argued by the BLM – over 80 percent of Nevada is owned by the federal government.

Human shield controversy

It has been widely reported that Richard Mack, a supporter of the Bundys and a former Arizona sheriff, told Fox News that a strategy had been put in place to set women on the front lines during the standoff, according to TheBlaze.

Bundy family, supporters at the overpass demanding the BLM to release the impounded cattle, Clark County, Nev., April 12, 2014 | Photo courtesy of Marybeth Greenwalt, St. George News

Bundy family, supporters at the overpass demanding the BLM to release the impounded cattle, Clark County, Nev., April 12, 2014 | Photographer as requested name withhedd, St. George News

“If they are going to start shooting,” Mack said, “it’s going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers.”

Mack is the founder of the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officer’s Association, and arrived in Nevada to support the Bundys, albeit after the standoff took place, Ammon Bundy said.

“Sheriff Mack wasn’t even there,” Ammon Bundy said. “There was no strategy.”

He said the women were there because they chose to be there.

One of those woman was Lilley Bundy-Spencer, one of Cliven Bundy’s sisters.

“There were some tense moments that could have turned to tragedy, but didn’t,” Lilley Bundy-Spencer said.

“We do have tough women in our family and community,” Ammon Bundy said.

As for how the media is characterizing Mack’s words, Ammon Bundy said: “You can spin it how you want.”

Damaged infrastructure and dead cattle

In a press conference Monday, Ammon Bundy said a dead bull had been found on the range and some dead animals – two calves, 3-4 months old – were also found in the corrals where the BLM had been keeping the cattle before being forced to release them. There was also a corral full of injured animals, he said.

The Bundys have since found another dead bull and a grave where at least one cow was found buried. There was fresh dirt around the area where a cow’s leg was found sticking out of the ground, Ammon Bundy said.

Craig Leff, a BLM spokesman, said in an email: “Two bulls were euthanized, both of which posed a safety hazard. The gather and holding had been conducted according to best practices for gathering cattle.”

As for infrastructure, Ammon Bundy said a watering station has been destroyed. Fences and corrals were also reportedly damaged, as were water lines.

“As part of the operation,” Leff said, “the BLM was completing range improvements to remove structures illegally placed on public lands that damaged the land and water.”

As for any possible damage the roundup could have done to desert tortoise habitat, Leff said: “The BLM completed an environmental assessment prior to the operation that included measures to minimize the impact of the operation on desert tortoise and desert tortoise habitat.”

Manipulated by fringe elements?

In the wake of the April 9 viral video that showed an altercation between the BLM and Bundys, people from across the West and across the nation poured into the Bundy Ranch to show their support. Among those supporters were armed individuals and militia men who began to act as security and body guards for the Bundys.

Civilian militia at the Bundy support rally, Clark County, Nev., April 12, 2014 | Photo courtesy of a photographer who requested his name be withheld, St. George News

Civilian militia at the Bundy support rally, Clark County, Nev., April 12, 2014 | Photo courtesy of a photographer who requested his name be withheld, St. George News

Following the standoff between the BLM and the Bundys and their supporters, commentator Glenn Beck said on his program that Cliven Bundy’s cause – that public lands should belong to the states and not the federal government – was attracting a fringe element.

“They don’t care what the facts are, they just want a fight,” Beck said, according to TheBlaze.

“You’re always going to attract those kind of people,” Ammon Bundy said. “The BLM attracts them too – people attracted to power and authority.”

Asked whether or not he felt his father and his message were possibly being manipulated by outsiders that poured in with the militia, Ammon Bundy said “no”.

“No, not one bit,” he said. “Believe me, if the BLM can’t do it, no one can, and the BLM is all about manipulation.”

The people here love freedom and are worried about it, Ammon Bundy said. He also had something to say about the negative view popular media had toward the militia.

“Militia is not a bad word,” he said. “It’s a right in the Constitution. They are the people’s army that are called upon when the government fails.”

“Domestic terrorists” and Patriot Party

“Those people who hold themselves out to be patriots are not. They’re nothing more than domestic terrorists,” Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nevada, told the Las Vegas ReviewJournal Thursday during a press event.

Cliven Bundy at a press conference following the withdrawal of the BLM. He again urged Clark County Douglas Gillespie to disarm “federal bureaucracies: like the BLM and National Park Service, and urged sheriffs across America to do the same, Bunkerville, Nev., April 2014 | Photo by Mori Kessler, St. George News

Cliven Bundy at a press conference following the withdrawal of the BLM. He again urged Clark County Douglas Gillespie to disarm “federal bureaucracies: like the BLM and National Park Service, and urged sheriffs across America to do the same, Bunkerville, Nev., April 2014 | Photo by Mori Kessler, St. George News

Reid said he has spoken to Clark County Sheriff Douglas Gillespie, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, and the FBI and Department of the Interior about the Cliven Bundy situation.

“It is an issue that we cannot let go, just walk away from,” Reid said.

Cliven Bundy and his supporters are taking the label in stride. The Bundys held a “Patriot Party” at their ranch Friday in honor of the people who supported them during the conflict with the BLM.

The Las Vegas Review-Journal was also at the Patriot Party, and reported Cliven Bundy being on stage and asking the crowd if they were domestic terrorists. The crowd responded with cheers and applause. Many of them wore name tags with “domestic terrorists” written on them.

Live music was provided by Madison Rising and Ron Keel, and while people gathered and celebrated, militia men continued to stand guard around the ranch.

The fight between Cliven Bundy and the federal government is far from over. The BLM has vowed to continue the fight “administratively and judicially.”

Here’s a citizen defying them,” Ammon Bundy said. “Civilian disobedience. They can’t have that.”

He also said his father has had a number of lawyers approach him who are offering to look into his case for free. Having been to the federal level twice, however, some, including Reid, have said Cliven Bundy has exhausted his options in court.

Washington County Commissioner Alan Gardner said during the Washington County Republican Convention that Bundy’s dispute with the BLM has brought the issue of public lands to the forefront.

Gardner, like many commissioners across Utah, support having ownership and control of public land transferred from the federal government to the states. While other western states are exploring the possibility, Utah passed legislation to this affect in 2012.

Related

Email: mkessler@stgnews.com

Twitter: @MoriKessler

Copyright St. George News, SaintGeorgeUtah.com LLC, 2014, all rights reserved.

 

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  61 Comments
  1. Cows April 19, 2014 at 7:00 pm · Reply

    Probably killed the cows himself in an effort to make the government look bad. Imagine the cost to Nevada to manage the 80% of land the Federal Govt maintains. Let them have it. Same with Mexico and Arizona; let them handle the cost of maintaining them. Outside that, the National Park lands belongs to all US Citizens. It’s been proven the states can’t take care of them, not without the infusion of massive Federal dollars.

    • dlr April 19, 2014 at 9:13 pm · Reply

      You sir are an idiot. if you think nevada will lose money obtaining millions of acres. and I would imagine nevada can manage nevada better then the blm can with less financial waste (they wont spend 3 million collecting a million dollar debt i bet.). If you think that bundy brought trackhoes in and killed and buried his own cattle, you are Mk Ultra’d to the max. You are going to be proven to be wrong as time goes on and bundy wins his case. As the article said Utah has made steps towards it and we are doing financially fine. And how much money do you think it costs to “manage” land really.. ohh that unruly land, costing so much money just to exist i guess. Are you talking blm officers, turtle preservation’s, and controlled burns? The simple fact is is if Nevada made all the money Harry Reid got from the sale of Nevada lands they would be doing better then fine. they would have more then enough money to “manage” their own land. You do know that America is a Republic, not a democracy right? Do you understand the pledge of allegiance and the constitution actually mean real things..?

      • crypto666 April 21, 2014 at 7:37 am · Reply

        The same guy shot his own cow because it tried to gore his wife. Besides, he doesn’t even know which cows are his, he brands whatever wonders through his yard, or at least land he claims is his yard.

        You obviously know nothing about managing land. I have 250 acres that eats my lunch every year between grazing, weeds, water, veg cutting, seeding, fences, etc. You thonk nevada could afford it? Just the cost of fire suppression equipment would bankrupt the state.

        Oh, and nevermind the fact that land would go to you, or me. It would go to the same coorupt politicians who are trying to get it today so they can make more money for themselves.

    • DLR April 20, 2014 at 7:45 pm · Reply

      Actually COWS might be right . The more I read the more I realize Bundy’s
      motives have nothing to do with “freedom”. He was to use land that does
      not belong to him . He exhausted his legal options so he has enlisted a bunch of fanatics . After hearing some of his other false statements one can be pretty certain he or his kin killed those cows .
      Sorry for the flip flop

      • Jacer April 21, 2014 at 8:20 am · Reply

        The more I read and study this, the more I realize that no matter what Bundy’s motives were. Those “No Tress passing” signs were to ALL citizens not just the Bundy’s. In translation – American citizens are in no way, shape, or form allowed to step foot on this land. Unless an employee of the BLM or contractor who has permission from BLM to be there. A big shout out THANK YOU to the US public for your tax dollars to fund the management of this public land, but you don’t get to step foot on it anymore. Sorry. Wait… J/k we aren’t sorry. Deal with it!!! Yes people, this is the government we support, in their eyes there is no such thing as public land. Only government owned. Makes you think Bundy wasn’t such an idiot after all. When he stood up to them for his personal reasons, he made us all think about the big picture here. I wouldn’t mind going over and seeing what’s so neat about that area. And thanks to Bundy, I can. Had he not stood up to them and I went over to hike around and see the beauty, I would have been arrested. Just for looking. Crazy :(

      • Mark April 21, 2014 at 5:49 pm · Reply

        Really? Have you ever tried NOT TO PAY a Government Agency for 20 Years? Try NOT Paying your Taxes for 20 years and see what Happens?

  2. Festus April 19, 2014 at 9:05 pm · Reply

    Still with this guy…. Booooooo

  3. Me April 19, 2014 at 9:10 pm · Reply

    I have watched this from a distance for decades. (My family came from westerners; I left, got a PHD, taught in liberal institutions and for liberal organizations. I hope I see both sides.) Unfortunately, the major issues are being diverted with red herring lessor arguments, such as fees, militia, tortoises, etc.

    Mr. Bundy’s situation is simply a symptom. The real issue is the FUNDAMENTAL CULTURAL DIVIDE between most Western locals and the often outsider Feds.

    On the one hand, Western history is replete with factual stories of overgrazing and destructive mining. On the other, Federal employees, policies, and bureaucracies are often out of touch and unresponsive to the people who use the land.

    As one example, a rancher friend built, at his own expense, a 12 mile water line to bring water from the mountains to a winter range. Cattle, deer, elk, and all wildlife benefitted. But the BLM said birds could fall in the open troughs, and required bird ladders be built. The rancher obliged and welded some ladders in for a few bucks each. However, the BLM said the ladders were not of an approved type, and required him to install approved ladders at $200 each.

    Entertainment at cattleman bbq’s is often replete with such idiotic (to them at least) stories of eastern college graduate BLM officers. No doubt Fed conventions do the same about dumb cowpokes. This simply show how the culture divide is negative and pervasive.

    One could easily describe the relationship between Feds and locals as more akin to Sunni ruling the Shia, or Irish Protestants ruling Irish Catholics, or Turks ruling Armenians, etc. They simply don’t care for each other, and they never will.

    If those simmering opponents aren’t separated somehow, the outcome is not hard to predict. The locals will revolt with little clubs, and then beat by big ones. It will be a round-up alright, at 4am. The BLM is smart enough to not let it be caught on camera again—it’s bad PR.

    • middle roader April 21, 2014 at 11:31 am · Reply

      wow… best response yet. good job explaining this.

  4. Delong April 19, 2014 at 9:19 pm · Reply

    STG News- You and Glen Beck are the only media outlets in the nation that has covered the Bundy case with both sides included. Thank you sincerely for actually practicing journalism and seeking the facts!

    It’s really sad to see how this clear case of non-compliance is splitting conservatives. When constitutional and fair laws mean nothing to Americans, we fail as a country. Too bad the divisive politics in Washington DC has greatly contributed to lawlessness and conspiracy central in this situation.

  5. Simone April 19, 2014 at 11:07 pm · Reply

    Please stop giving this criminal press time.

    • Simone April 19, 2014 at 11:10 pm · Reply

      When you move on, his militia will as well and we, meaning normal Non criminal American people, will be able to evict him without any further B.S.

    • David Harris April 21, 2014 at 10:19 am · Reply

      Would have said the same thing when Rosa Parks refused to give her seat up to a white person when it was law for blacks to give up their seats? How about when the blacks did a sit in at the lunch counters when it was illegal for them to do so? Laws are meant to be challenged when they are destructive to the rights of Americans. When Nevada became a state, the federal government should have turned the lands directly over to Nevada, but they made it a condition of them becoming a state, that they didn’t get those lands. The alphabet bureaucracies of the United States, have become nothing more than a 4th branch of Government who doesn’t care about the Constitution or Federal laws. They make their own rules up.

      • Simone April 21, 2014 at 12:19 pm · Reply

        If Rosa Parks or those African Americans had recruited a bunch of nuts who love guns and hate the government to come down by promising that they might get to use those guns on evil government officials then put innocent people in danger by blocking I15 with armed “militia” then yes I would have . The difference is that Rosa Parks and those blacks protested only by choosing to remain seated as long as possible. Obviously, their form of protest was still very effective.

  6. McMurphy April 20, 2014 at 9:21 am · Reply

    There are strong and weak points on both sides of this dispute. As a matter of general principle I tend to side with the citizen against the state. What is clear to me is that Federal agencies are out of control. ATF lets firearms go south of the border to drug cartels. The IRS targets conservative groups. The EPA fines a person $75 thousand a day for building a pond on his own property. Read ME’s story about the BLM and the water line. The BLM brings snipers to a cattle round up.
    Vote early and often

    • John Wayne April 20, 2014 at 11:06 pm · Reply

      Why does a reptile have more rights to a living than a human family!
      These endangered species claims are always false but even if they were legitimate they should not have as much, not to mention more rights than human beings.
      If you are not a rancher then you do not understand the nuances and dynamics of this issue.

      If you are against Bundy for not paying then you are unaware of what it is all about and how much government extremism has gone on.

      • crypto666 April 21, 2014 at 7:41 am · Reply

        Don’t call cliven a reptile, he is a free loader.

      • CurtMiner April 21, 2014 at 8:59 am · Reply

        Bundy is a criminal welfare cheat

  7. MerrHell April 20, 2014 at 9:41 am · Reply

    The BLM has created an entirely wasteful operation for the entire area. NO BLM is needed at all. Its the desert in the middle of nowhere! The tortoise is fine without them watching. The BLM is wasting tens of millions of dollars, when the money could be used to secure the border to keep illegals from invading the country… it could buy healthcare for hundreds of poor families… Why do we have BLM offices in the desert? with SUV’s and dozens of agents? It is an utter wasted expansion of a federal bureaucracy that has run amok. The entire organization could be disbanded tomorrow and the country would be a better place for humans and native wildlife now and over the next centuries.

    • Titanium Dragon April 20, 2014 at 6:57 pm · Reply

      Clive Bundy is clearly a crazy person. If you use public resources, you gotta pay for them. You don’t get to privatize profits and publicize costs.

      Terrorists like him are the reason why liberals are afraid of crazy rural gun nuts; most people in rural areas are not insane like this chump.

      • Jacer April 21, 2014 at 8:55 am · Reply

        Titanium Dragon, huh? Are u a gamer? Your name says it all. Get away from your virtual world, come to reality and get the facts. This protest wasn’t about unpaid grazing. It was about Force, you know, making people do what you want because you have power. I am sure you learned about it in Star Wars. However, unpaid bills should never constitute snipers, tasers or vicious dogs. I guess light sabers would be OK. Get a life!

        • Curtis April 29, 2014 at 8:24 pm · Reply

          This guy hasn’t paid for twenty years his taxes that he owed. Anyone that says he is being oppressed is misinformed or refuses to learn the truth. In that twenty years, he was given numerous warnings, and not to mention fair and civil trails in front of both state and federal courts telling him he had to pay, he was given his due process and full rights from the constitution he and you constantly preach about. So tell me how in the world is this guy unfairly treated when they sat their waited with extreme patience for him to pay up and instead he sits there spits the same government in the face, the very same government who has given him citizenship, rights, and fair treatment under the law. Hell twenty years was way to long I wouldn’t have waited that long maybe five years, but still they gave him all the time in the world to pay. The law is the law and there are times where you show exceptions like civil rights ( The same law I remind you in which you conservatives have tried to stop) we gave African Americans civil rights and curbed all that shady … the south was doing to keep them as close to slavery as possible. My point is this just because you don’t get your way doesn’t mean you have the excuse to get violent over it, just because Mr. Bundy doesn’t want to pay his fines and taxes like everybody else, doesn’t mean he has the right to threaten government officials and denounce the U.S government the very same patient people who have waited twenty years to pay his debts. … If I was in charge I would send in a whole division and tell everyone to go home and Bundy pay his fines and taxes owed or else, im glad to see that the very “tyrannical” U.S government has decided not to do such actions in the guise of more patience. PS Don’t insult people, it makes you look like a … fool and idiot.
          Ed. ellipses.

  8. combat vet and true jedi warrior April 20, 2014 at 2:45 pm · Reply

    time to lock up this bundy bastard

    • ok April 20, 2014 at 11:53 pm · Reply

      Your will get to lurn the hard way when you are under attack by law inforcment when everything you lived for is pulled out from under you then you will hope you have a friend to defend your rights. God bless the usa

  9. Bullet April 20, 2014 at 7:36 pm · Reply

    It is a shame our federal government has evolved to a money grubbing land eating machine. Taxes are too high, encroachment into the private sector is extreme. I have been taught that to change things, that we must stand up for what we believe and vote for those who share like beliefs. I have been doing just that since I was old enough to vote, well I’m am 55 years old nothing’s appears to have changed for the better. Could it be that Mr. Bundy feels the same? He lives and survives in a place most people would deplore as evidenced by the population or lack thereof in that area. He scratches out a living doing what most Americans will never understand, this is neither good or bad just the way it is. The question is why is the blm so adamate about his removal off of the land he occupies? The tortoise, the destruction of the land itself, the grazing fees he hasn’t paid, which by the way the other ranchers in the area paid as well and were still squeezed to the point that they had to leave? I don’t think so, there must be an alterior motive, or should we use the word greed. The greed of our government ? I say it’s time to take a stand just as Cliven did, voting has not worked. When will the government come for my belongings, your belongings, or your neighbors stuff? It will happen. As for me they already take enough. Thank you Mr Bundy for doing what you did,you have fought the wolf away from your door. I fear it will return. Good luck and heck who knows I may be at your side someday in the war against tyranny!
    Fellow over ta xed rancher and business owner
    RC Turner.

    • Little Hawk April 22, 2014 at 10:36 pm · Reply

      Cliven Bundy is a multi-millionaire, hardly “scratching out a living”

  10. MrRedNeckParadise April 20, 2014 at 8:20 pm · Reply

    Heh. I remember when dissent was the highest form of patriotism. Good times, eh?

    Politicians have used government to force people off the land so that the politicians can give it – or access to it – to their own supporters, families and friends. That is what the BLM has been doing for over twenty years, now, all in the name of environmentalism. (In one case, a federal judge has called the BLM a racketeering scam.) In the early 90’s, politicians changed the law to make it easier to move ranchers and farmers off ‘public’ land. In many cases, the government also forced those American citizens off of their own land, as well.

    Mr. Bundy and his family now stand in the way of several large corporations as well as being in the way of corrupt state and federal politicians. Therefore, from their pov, he – and his family – has to go…whatever it takes. Up to and including sending several hundred well armed federal officers to his ranch, when a couple of county sheriffs with an arrest warrant would have sufficed.

    When laws are enacted that only benefit politicians, their families and cronies, and when they exempt themselves from laws which punish you and I, that, my friends, is called tyranny. This is what Bundy stands against – unjust laws and an unequal application of those laws, as well as against the political corruption that permeates our society.

    If you support the government against Cliven Bundy, you openly support tyranny and political corruption and in so doing, you declare yourself to be the enemy of freedom and liberty.

    No, I don’t expect you to take my word for any of this. I do expect you to do some research and try to think for yourselves. Heh. Who am I kiddin’. I know better.

  11. Chris April 20, 2014 at 8:38 pm · Reply

    When Richard Mack shows up, you know the lunatic fringe has taken an interest. He wore out his welcome in Graham county, AZ (voted out by his constituency), and has been looking for another home to practice his idiocy in ever since.

  12. JAR April 20, 2014 at 10:12 pm · Reply

    TITANIUM DRAGON,
    It sounds to me, Someone sold you a crate of ‘Fools Gold’, told you it was pure titanium, stroked your head and gave you a badge that proclaims ‘I get all my news from the DNC.

  13. Mary April 20, 2014 at 10:54 pm · Reply

    Go ahead. Let them have their land if they want it. No longer will our taxes be used to subsidize their “Welfare Ranching”. The states may have to purchase the land outright from the feds. They will now be forced to pay state taxes on all land use, build their own protective infrastructures – law, fire, etc. – and can’t look to the U.S. Government for any monetary support. They will still be liable for damage to the environment – due to those other pesky federal organizations that will maintain their authority – LET them bear the brunt of their foolishness. They will have to pay exorbitant insurance rates for loses in the event of natural catastrophes, livestock loses, and drought. They just think it’s too high now. Maybe they would be better off . . . .

    • Jacer April 21, 2014 at 8:46 am · Reply

      Ha ha, this is hilarious! So, Bundy is a welfare rancher? When everything you are saying is telling the state to be a welfare recipient to the federal government. Oh my, please don’t run for office, I beg you!

      • Mary April 21, 2014 at 12:43 pm · Reply

        I stand corrected. Bundy isn’t a welfare rancher. He’s just a freeloader. Don’t like that term “Welfare Rancher”. Guess what. It exists for a reason. Clearly you have issues with interpreting the written word. I’m not telling the state to do anything and I have to assume you are referring to Nevada. Call it satire or a suggestion, I do not care. I just think that if Bundy and his supporters believe in THEIR rhetoric, they may have some point in their own misguided universe. However, sucking off the government tit may no longer be an option if they get what they want. As for me running for office – not a chance. I do however have the power to vote. I have news for you – we do not live in a free country. The U.S. is a republic governed by laws, enacted under a democratic process. I don’t vote for a single individual. I study who is behind him/her and then make a choice as to who it is I’m actually voting for. I would suggest you start doing the same. This comment applies to Boots there below with his Chicken Little alerts.

  14. Boots April 21, 2014 at 12:18 am · Reply

    This country needs to WAKE UP, PULL THEIR HEADS OUT OF THE SAND, QUIT ACTING LIKE SHEEP BEING LED TO SLAUGHTER and open your eyes to what the Federal Government is doing to us.. 90% of you I doubt have EVER READ the US Constitution. The Federal Government WAS NEVER MEANT TO CONTROLL ANY LAND. Just because a judge says the land belongs to the FEDS does not make it so. They are overstepping the jurisdiction’s and boundaries that we the people gave them. They are changing laws when ever they want, to suit what they want and if it means kicking ranchers out and off their own ranches (which is what has happened in that area of Nevada, read how many other ranchers have been harassed to the point that they have given up and sold out) Which is what the Feds want Bundy to do. Reid has SOLD the lands that Bundy grazes to a Chinese Solar Power Co. which Reid’s Son works for. He is doing this all for MONEY and his own Greed. This is nothing but railroading a honest rancher that has ties to that land (grandfather rights back to 1870) when his family first settled there. The BLM, Court Judges, do not have the authority to change the laws according to the US Constitution. ONLY CONGRESS CAN RE WRITE THE LAWS.
    You people need to wake up how are you going to react when they rewrite the laws to their gain and take away your home because they want the land it is sitting on???? They are trying to pass more bills and laws to keep the US people out of public lands and forest, they are trying to take away our hunting rights if we can not hunt then we do not need guns, Read your World History, What happened to the country’s that lost their gun rights, The country fell. Sorry but I live in a State where we will FIGHT to keep our guns, let them come onto my land and tell me I can not have my animals, that they are seizing my water rights and I can not live here any more WE WILL FIGHT. It will not be us or our animals that get Buried.
    The BLM, the so called Cattle Wrangler’s that were hired and paid over $900,000 dollars of taxpayer’s money, should have to pay for the damages done to the Bundy grazing area’s, The cattle THEY KILLED, and the loss of Revenue to the Bundy’s, Then they should all be tried as thieves and HUNG They are nothing short of Cattle Rustlers, and should be treated as such.

    WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE, TAKE UP YOUR ARM’S STAND UP FOR OUR CONTRY AND LET’S TAKE HER BACK.

    I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic, for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.

    OURS THE PEOPLES COUNTRY ACCORDING TO THE US CONSTITUTION AND OUR BILL OF RIGHTS.

    • Curtis April 29, 2014 at 8:30 pm · Reply

      Alright buddy tell me what are first four amendments then hmmm I can tell
      you

      1. Freedom of speech, religion ,and assembly
      2. Right to bear arms and organize federally regulated militias
      3. protection against quartering of the troops
      4. Protection against illegal search and seizure

      What about you do me a favor tell the next 6 amendments to the bill of rights will you if you are so smart

  15. Government is taking over April 21, 2014 at 6:34 am · Reply

    I can’t believe you people are supporting the federal government. I’m guessing all of you are vegans. Have seen the price of beef lately? This guy has been doing this for 20 years and now they decide to take action. Give me a … break. Nothing but a political stunt . Something for liberals to spin to death. His been there that long leave the … man alone. If it’s private land how did he get there to begin with. There are two sides to every story but we just get the government liberal side.
    Ed. ellipses.

  16. Sieginthewind April 21, 2014 at 7:19 am · Reply

    Harry the Red calls patriots domestic terrorists for standing against an overbearing Federales yet cannot bring himself to call the Fort Hood shooter a domestic terrorist – that was work-place violence. So let’s see: a group of armed Americans protecting another citizen from a possible Waco/Ruby Ridge situation by the US Feds where no shots were fired – that is domestic terrorism. MAJ Nidal Hasan spews continuous anti-American, anti-military, pro-Islamic hate speech, pulls out a gun and kills American citizens while yelling “Allah Akbar” – work-place violence. Harry is either crazy, senile or a vile wretch of a tyrant. Take your pic.

  17. crypto666 April 21, 2014 at 8:00 am · Reply

    That map is completely wrong, not accurate, incorrect scale, misrepresentative, misleading, poorly made, and ment to incite people.

  18. Joe April 21, 2014 at 8:47 am · Reply

    Yeah, Bundy’s a deadbeat welfare rancher who only recently has latched onto the whole militia/freedom/tea party/anti-gov’t publicity thing in a last ditch effort to save his sorry a**.

  19. Arizona Bred April 21, 2014 at 8:52 am · Reply

    Nothing I have read or heard changes the fact that Mr Bundy is nothing more than a free loader on the tax payers dime. I’ll bet he feels proud that for 20 years he has had a scam going while the other18,000 American ranchers honestly pay their land leases. Meanwhile the old coot with the constitution in his shirt pocket doesn’t recognize the laws, courts or even the federal government. It will be no surprise that Mr Bundy in his arrogance will loose his cows, family ranch and melon stand as well as his walmart account to pay what he owes us the taxpayers. Nothing new this is how it works. Any chance the right wing and militia will take up a collection and donation to pay off his debts. Not a chance they will be long gone. Bundy who?

  20. Chicorey April 21, 2014 at 8:59 am · Reply

    I think Mr. Bundy really is enjoying his 15 minutes of fame & probably will try to stretch it as far as he can. I don’t see his side of this. What I do see is that if I were a rancher using grazing allotments AND PAYING THE FEES – I’d be pretty fed up with this guy getting away without paying for 20 years!!!
    The BLM has mismanaged the public lands in every way, shape & form. What they have done while “managing” the wild horses & burros certainly makes that obvious. And selling off OUR public land to the highest bidder puts it right in our faces. As far as I’m concerned, both sides are wrong…..

  21. Ray Holt April 21, 2014 at 9:25 am · Reply

    Clive has no authority to say what land belongs to who. He has TWENTY YEARS to resolve this. He grazed ILLEGALLY on FEDERAL LAND for TWENTY YEARS. He owes over a MILLION DOLLARS. If he does not like the way this country is run, he can move to another country. Armed resistance is going to get people killed and the blood would have been on his hands. He went on Hannity and asked that all county sheriffs disarm federal law enforcement. This guys is an A-1, Top class, screw job. Some body better settle him down before somebody gets hurt. He thinks he has won a victory , but this is far from over.

  22. Ray Holt April 21, 2014 at 9:29 am · Reply

    There are many laws out there. You might not like them, but they still must be followed. Do you think a thief would be justified in robbing your home if he just said that he did not like that law and refused to abide by it ? Or would you want him arrested for stealing your stuff ? Bundy is not special. Just because his family has USED this land ( not owned ) , does not give him special permission to ignore the law. If you do not like a law, take them to court. You have had 20 years to resolve this. I have no sympathy for armed protest.

    • tompte April 21, 2014 at 11:07 am · Reply

      Ray, you are exactly correct. Also you’ve worded the issues accurately & concisely.

  23. sandy April 21, 2014 at 9:38 am · Reply

    It is surreal that while 16,000 ranchers pay their grazing fees people are defending this one guy who has been trespassing on federal land for over 20 years as though he has a right to just graze as many cattle as he wants wherever he wants. Stunning.

  24. BG April 21, 2014 at 9:44 am · Reply

    We need to hit the reset button with our federal government. Congress has made themselves too nice a bed and they need to be stopped and it will take a revolution by the American people to do it. Unfortunately there will be bloodshed but we must take this country back before it is to late. STOP VOTING FOR FEDERAL PUPPETS!

  25. combat vet and true jedi warrior April 21, 2014 at 10:48 am · Reply

    The level of idiocy in some of these comments is astounding. You people really should give the Fox news and the AM radio a well-deserved break…

    • Disdain April 21, 2014 at 12:19 pm · Reply

      We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.

  26. The Council April 21, 2014 at 11:58 am · Reply

    It looked like there were some cows and donkies among the protesters

  27. Munbeam666 April 21, 2014 at 12:42 pm · Reply

    Mr Bundy is not a poor cattle rancher, as he has been portrayed by his supporters. He is a millionaire and, primarily a melon farmer, which he grows on his 160 acre homesteaded farm.
    Mr. Bundy is connected with a group called “The Sagebrush Rebellion” which was started back in the 1980s in Nevada by oil, gas, and mining interests, including a number of billionaire investors (including possibly, the Koch brothers) whose aim is to take our federal lands from us to search and develop oil, gas, and mining operations. Mr. Bundy may or may not be an unwitting front for their operations; but I doubt farming melons and running a bunch of unattended, unbranded scrawny cattle – even on federal land -will make anyone much money
    I believe these very wealthy global energy interests are using Mr Bundy and his family to be a wedge between ranchers, cattle, wildlife, environmentalists, Native Americans, Mustang preservationists and the rest of us citizenry in order to conduct a ‘divide and conquer’ strategy
    Waving guns and threatening people is not going to save our public commons land for anyone. Through alliances with a non-violent strategy, public outreach and public education about what is really going on, is the best way to start a resistence to Big Oil land grabs. I hope that some ranchers, environmentalists, and Mustang people look to the coalition that has formed against the KXL Pipeline in the northern plains area. This coalition is comprised of Native-Americans, ranchers, and environmentalists, and they are fighting a very similar issue – that of Big Energy’s land grab of public, private, and reservation lands to further their developments. It has been theorized that the Koch brothers will make over 100 billion on this project alone, should it go through

  28. Michael Mann April 21, 2014 at 1:59 pm · Reply

    Who is it that’s funding the Center for Biological Diversity (CBD), the NGO that is said to be behind the BLM’s actions against Bundy? A closer look at who funds this nonprofit organization, as well as some other groups that he sponsors, should shed some light on why our country is as messed up as it is.

    CBD is funded by Earthjustice, which is funded by the Jewish oligarch George Soros. Earthjustice is an environmental litigating organization. It is said that this organization “seeks to place severe restrictions on how U.S. land and waterways may be used. It opposes most mining and logging initiatives, commercial fishing businesses, and the use of motorized vehicles in undeveloped areas.” Soros’ organization also “litigates against efforts to extract oil, gas, and coal from U.S. public lands.” Through environmental groups that Soros funds, much has been done to demonize the extracting, refining and use of oil and coal.

    It is also said that “Soros believes in centralized global government control of land, food, water and other resources in order to control the world’s ‘human capital.’” – http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6970

    There are quite a few other organizations that also receive direct funding and assistance from George Soros, their missions giving a much more complete picture of the oligarch and his objectives for not just our economy, but for our culture as well. See at the following:
    http://www.klamathbasincrisis.org/fundingthedemise/Soros/sorosandosigrantees.htm

    Soros has made campaign contributions to many far left politicians, including Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Bill and Hillary Clinton, and even our very own Harry Reid, the one who wants us to see Bundy and those standing with him as “domestic terrorists.”

    To be fair, the media should share at least some of the spotlight they have on Bundy with the oligarch that is funding the NGO that has turned this tortoise vs cattle controversy into a major issue. Doing so would certainly give a much clearer picture of what this whole thing is really all about.

    • Munbeam666 April 21, 2014 at 6:03 pm · Reply

      Instead of demonizing the Center for Biological Diversity, and making a racist statement against certain ethnic groups, you should look at what the effects of mining, fracking and drilling have done to our environment. In fact, many ranchers and farmers throughout the country are extremely concerned about abovementioned activities that have poisoned their land and water…
      That is why there are many who have organized to oppose the Big Energy corporate interests

  29. Munbeam666 April 21, 2014 at 3:37 pm · Reply

    Check out the Bold Nebraska website, http://www.boldnebraska.org

    • Munbeam666 April 21, 2014 at 6:36 pm · Reply

      Another link to ranchers, farmers and Native Americans fighting against Big Energy over land takeovers….www.msnbc.com/the-ed-show/watch/obama-administration-extends-keystone-xl-review-2307994227773

  30. BobbyGvegas April 21, 2014 at 4:57 pm · Reply

    Gotta love this guy ranting about not recognizing the federal government from a lectern festooned with a backdrop of U.S. flags. Also predictable is that hardy perennial Playskool Militia placard bemoaning “Marshall Law.”

    Cirque du Bundistan, this poignant crew.

  31. SL April 21, 2014 at 7:32 pm · Reply

    BUNDY, MERELY TO AVOID TAXES REST OF US PAY/ FED IS THE PEOPLE/ HE A MILLIONAIRE WHO WAVES FLAG, SPOUTS CONSTITUTION FOR HIS BENEFIT, RILING UP EXTREMISTS AND, LIKE MILLIOAIRES, USES SYSTEM TO HIS ADVANTAGE

  32. me April 21, 2014 at 9:50 pm · Reply

    I think the big point Bundy supports miss in all this is the blatant anarchy. Like it or not, that land is under BLM jurisdiction… says the judicial branch of government established by your dearly treasured Constitution… not once, but twice! You have representation, just like our founding fathers intended. If you don’t like it, change the system via the Constitution of the country you claim to love so much. Showing up ready for a showdown with complete disregard for the laws that govern society is an absurdly childish act of wannabe martyrs who care more about fulfilling their wild west fantasies than they do about the country they claim to love.

    What’s that phrase I heard so much during the Bush administration:
    America… love it or leave it. Good riddance you despicable heathens.

  33. Corey April 22, 2014 at 8:51 am · Reply

    The Constitution clearly states in Article 1, Section 8 what enmuerated powers our Federal Government can exercise. ” Exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such district (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cesion of paricular states, and the acceptence of Congress, become the seat of the Government of the United States, and to excercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erections of forts, magazines, arsenals, dock yards, and other needful buildings.” TEN SQUARE MILES is all they can claim and only if the state allows it. All BLM land is not part of any fort or base of any kind. I can’t help it if the Federal courts refuse to do their job and uphold the Constitution. their refusal to do so does not change the FACT that the Federal Government has no claim to the land that the BLM claims it owns. When the territory becames a state then that portion of land that just became a state aquires ALL rights that the Constitution recognises to all the states. The Ten Amendment talks about states rights and how if a right or power is not specifically granted to the Federal Government then that right or power is reserved for the states, or the people. The Constitution does not grant any right to the Federal Government to own land anywhere else in the document other than the tens miles square. The Constitution superceeds all agreements, all other laws passed by men who don’t care about the Constitution.

    • Carl April 24, 2014 at 5:45 am · Reply

      What is ment in the Constitution of the United States Article IV, Sec 3?

  34. JustMe April 23, 2014 at 12:01 am · Reply

    Why is the BLM interested in so much land? Bundy is the only one fighting it in NEVADA look at this and see blm is trying to get more in texas. What is the truth behind this?
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/22/republicans-warn-blm-eyeing-land-grab-along-texas-oklahoma-border/

  35. CurtMiner April 23, 2014 at 5:13 am · Reply

    BUNDYFEST 2014:

    Some of the organizers of the annual Burning Man festival are planning an event aimed at assisting the claims of a Nevada rancher who refuses to pay government-mandated fees for using federal lands.

    “For years, we paid permitting fees to hold Burning Man on the beautiful Playa in Northern Nevada,” said the event’s organizers on a Facebook page. “But now, Cliven Bundy has shown us a NEW WAY! ABSOLUTE FREEDOM! Bundy has declared the entire area surrounding Bundy Ranch as a TOTALLY RULES-FREE ZONE! ANYTHING GOES! WOO-HOO!!!”

    Activist Sean Shealy said Bundyfest, which will be held across the road from Bundy’s ranch in Bunkerville, Nevada, for one month starting on Sept. 5.

    That’s just after the conclusion of the Burning Man festival, and Shealy hopes attendees will travel south to see 240 bands perform 24 hours a day near the rancher’s home.

    “Some people have asked me, where will we camp, where will we park?” Shealy said. “Anywhere, really. It’s … anarchy.”

    The annual attendees who typically have to be run off after Burning Man, will now have a place to hang out after the festival; Bundyfest 2014. The majority of the people who stay weeks after Burning Man are typically the homeless and revelers from all walks, All Burning Man Festival attendees are all invited

  36. T.J. Thomas April 24, 2014 at 6:14 pm · Reply

    “Cliven Bundy has declared that the federal government has no authority to own lands within a state according to the Constitution…”

    Bundy and others who claim this haven’t thought it through, certainly not enough to realize that this idea would get as much resistance from conservatives in Washington as liberals. The majority of federal land in Nevada is given over to the military – in fact I think it has more military acreage than any other state. If you force the federal government to turn over that land, that means the military would be forced out too, and at that point chances are even the most private-property minded conservative in D.C. will fight you.

    Second, if the land is taken from the federal government, then there’s an even chance that it will go into private hands. If it does, then Bundy loses the right to use it for grazing. And even if it stays in Nevada’s hands, it may become multipurpose public land then too, at which point it will still be illegal for Bundy to graze on it.

    (At lot of these conversations miss the fact that the desert tortoise that’s part of all of this is Nevada’s state lizard, and got state protection forty years ago, two decades before it had federal protection.)

    Finally, Bundy says he won’t recognize federal authority. But Clark County also told him to quit using the land for grazing when they refused his offers of payment, and he ignored them too. It’s pretty clear that the only law Bundy cares about is his own.

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